Brainstorming can be a paradox of sorts. On one hand lies the beauty of open mindedness fro you brilliant superb ideas originate. While on then other hand pragmatism nags you into exploring the naivety of exhausting yourself into re-inventing the wheel. So what am I upto? Posts here at Kumekucha that touch on the cancer of TRIBALISM elicit the most vitriol and heated debates. The last one twining our clergy to their tribal leanings was no exception. The gem is that in the din of all the heated exchanges often emerges some challenges like this one from one blogger Kimi:
……….in the spirit of thinking outside the box what do you think of the idea that young people should now form their own strictly issue based political party in readiness for 2012, deliberately limited to those between 18 and 50 years old who desire political office? Even an 18 year old can have leadership qualities. Many of the current leaders(wazees) and their political parties were leaders in their late 20s many years ago, are now too tainted and untrustworthy and do not really understand the aspirations of younger Kenyans or even the modern world in the 21st century.
Social engineering not domo
This brilliant idea underscores the need for social engineering despite what many deride as mere politicking. Human beings can never prosper without a vehicle that galvanizes their collective aspirations and ideals. A political party is one such vehicle. The problem comes whether and EXCLUSIVE age restricted edifice would deliver this need. In my book age is not the problem and Kenya is not in the present hole because of lack of ideas. Instead we are prisoners to our sectarian mentality couched in DECEPTION.
This suggestion may look a revolutionary idea worth pondering. But on retrospection (am not pouring cold water) one’s intellectual nerves immediately gets jaundiced and fatigued given the litany of such related great ideas littering our political landscape that ended croppers thanks to competing self interests. We may have all it takes but measuring up to the challenge is a different kettle of fish.
Granted, FOCUS and PERSISTENCE are ingredients guaranteed to disabuse failure in the face of challenges. Success for this promising endeavour must be singularly premised on our undergoing a NATIONAL RENEWAL. No amount of pretense will wash if we chose to continue perfecting our tradition of rewording high sounding ventures than only succeed in soothing our individual and selfish egos.
The BIG question is, as a nation are we ready to look at our past straight in the eye and HONESTLY roll up our sleeves collectively to rescue ourselves in chatting the path for a prosperous and united Kenya? Or are we simply engaging in another charade of ego trip? Let Kenyans and bloggers out there dissect and decide. The jury is out and please keep it relevant and civil for our motherland.
Unlike previous posts, this requires fresh inputs and not material readily available to bash, perhaps thats why the loud silence, or maybe guys just taking a break
ReplyDeleteNo, just curious as to the meaning of social engineering. That a slur of sorts?
ReplyDeleteI agree but sometimes I wonder if Africans are intellectually capable of engagin in issue based politics or if its too civilized a pursuit for us to handle. Us Africans are prone to reverting back to our animal instincts to solve our problems..division,killings,corruption. Have we really evolved sufficiently for the modern world?
ReplyDeletewhat i see are very hard working Kenyans against all odds in such a political and biased climate in Kenya for years working very hard to reach their goal and feed their families- We should not forget the fact that not many kenyans are privileged or have got godfathers looking over their shoulders and helping them to achieve their dreams.
ReplyDeleteThis is why my arguments is kenyans are ready and in mass - our new generation out their if they took the time to put tribal aspects aside and decided to work together in politics like they do in business or other corporations without hate and animosity - and look back at how we all enjoyed going to school and made friends in fact some best friends from different tribes -if and when we use that background of our shared education and push it forward to working together to build our country and forget the old stack up ways of our forefathers - looking at our tribes and where who come from instead of embracing different culture and having the pride of learning other language as some of us did from our very dear close friends then i might suggest we have a long way to go.
Kenyans are intelligent enough to understand that if we indeed want our country to move forward economically and politically then we have to change -not only the systems in place but our stereo type way of labeling each other using tribal based politics, gender and age e.t.c we can't keep on saying wazee's must be respected even when they are wrong?? how do we clap our hands foe words uttered with some politicians today when we all know that they are wrong or lying?
At this age and time in this generation if you have noticed with the global world today- a child of 5 even 6 will not take an answer with a "no" a parent has to explain why they said no and even proceed to ecplain the pros and cons of that "no" to a child and yet in our own country we get feed with lines and we have no guts to question?? we hide in our homes and go behind computers like here on Kumekucha and start venting our anger on each other abusing each other using our tribal labeling ?? is that the way we will solve our political problems in kenya?? whom ever we name and abuse here? all those Members of parliament are still in place going about their jobs and getting big cheques at our own expenses at the end of each month
my theory therefore is that kenyans are actually cowards (I actually mean educated kenyans are cowards- the only kenyans that includes people like myself- the only kenyans i have seen fighting for their rights because of living on empty stomachs - with no education and forced to live in slums are the poor people in our country- those are the kenyan Hero's if you were to ask me- from Kenyatta's time to Moi and kibaki - look who goes out on the streets to protest and are saddly used by many politicians for their own agenda's and why I pray do this poor souls go out on the streets to protest?? I believe because they have nothing to loose and their thoughts are always on hunger and the injustices pushed on them day in and day out- and they seem never to give up hope- but the working class middle and upper class in kenya hide behind their gated homes and dare not venture out what a shame-
if we all used our brains to fight for all this changes we know are needed in Kenya?? why would this poor souls go to the streets?? wouldn't they get a shot at education?? Jobs?? like everyone else to better themselves? think about it?
Remember we don't have to wait for the wazee's to die in order to take over the leadership of our country!
I believe strongly that Kenya has a new breed of young turks that are very intelligent and able to run the country and lead it through to join the global world economy just like Korea did 10 years ago and other countries that were at par with Kenya 10 years ago - why not?? or else here comes Kenya- copy of Somalia, Rwanda- if we insist on hate- tribal wars!
I don't for a minute believe that the young generation highly educated with firm principals that we have - will go the same way of corruption and divisions like our former leaders. We are Lucky to have had opportunities to mix freely with different tribes and make friends even inter-marry unlike them 30 years ago- the hate you see around in Kenya is from the Old guard and is passed through to their families through fear preaching and not being able to accept the changes that are happening with the todays generation in kenya
I bet you know if a kikuyu or luo or luyha wanted to inter-marry the family will not be willing to accept the bride or groom easily when just last year before 27th December elections it was no 'TAABU' to marry from other tribes in Kenya IN FACT THE TREND WAS CATCHING UP- but now peoples minds have been poisoned on tribal lines- you see it is not only politics that is at risk here- relationships too.
anon 9:51 where've you been
ReplyDeletewe've been waiting on pple like you
On Saturday, Raila Odinga flew to Nyeri town – President Kibaki’s home district – to attend the installation of Bishop Peter Kairu as Archbishop of Nyeri Catholic diocese. The residents gave him a warm reception.
ReplyDeleteHad vice versa taken place, what would have happened? If Kibaki had flown to Luo Nyanza, we all know what Raila’s people would have done. They would have stoned Kibaki and few people would have listened to him.
The Saturday incident demonstrates the maturity of Central Kenya people compared to the primitive politics Raila has sowed amongst his own people. When Raila went to Kisumu for his homecoming, none of the speakers – including Raila – was allowed by the charged crowd to mention even Kibaki’s name. Ruto had to resort to talking about Prime Minister Raila Odinga na huyu mwingine to appease the crowd.
I was happy when I saw Nyeri residents warmly receiving Raila despite all the hatred he preached during campaigns last year against Kikuyus and people from the Mt Kenya region. The best way to ashame the likes of Raila is not to stone him or boo him. Receive him warmly so that he can be ashamed of his actions. Luos should abandon their primitive politics and demonstrate maturity. It demonstrates their barbaric attitudes when they result to heckling and stoning anyone they don’t agree with.
If Raila believes Kikuyus are what he thought they were during the campaigns, why is he so desperate to be installed as a Kikuyu elder. Doesn’t this show signs of a man suffering from inferiority complex? Why should one be so desperate to be recognised by another community?
For your information, Kikuyus no longer obediently follow their traditional customs. Kikuyus don’t have elders who represent the entire community or clan. They only have elders who are recognised in every homestead. But their role in the society is of no consequence. So, what is Raila craving to be? A Kikuyu elder? Kikuyus don’t have such titles. The only traditional custom that Kikuyus have never abandoned is circumcision of their men. In Kikuyu land, a kihii (uncircumcised man) is not allowed to sit in a meeting, eat together with circumcised men or share a bedroom. How will Raila beat the odds against him?
The people - Charles Njonjo and Peter Kuguru – who are behing plans to install Raila as a Kikuyu elders do not have any following in Central province. They are political rejects and we wonder whom they represent. Njonjo once declared that he would rather shake a dogs leg than shake the hand of a Luo. Has he ever retracted those words. Maybe he doesn’t want to carry those words to his grave and that’s why he is duping Raila into a ceremony he himself doesn’t believe in. Does Njonjo of all the people have any respect for his fellow Africans leave alone Kikuyus? Does Njonjo believe in African cultures and traditions? I wonder why Raila is for naïve to be duped by the likes of Njonjo.
Raila’s desires are driven by the presidency in 2012. Instead of hiding behind non-existent ceremonies and titles in the Kikuyu culture, Raila should come out in the open and declare he wants Kikuyus to support him. But that has no bearing in 2002 when he declared Kibaki Tosha. Raila helped Kibaki win the presidency on a gentleman’s agreement and it’s only Kibaki who owes him a favour. The Kikuyu community was not consulted and, therefore, owes him no favour at all. He should seek Kikuyu votes like any other politician and not base it on 2002.
In regard to the installation ceremony, I appeal to Kikuyus to welcome Raila to the fete. Don’t heckle him at all. Attend the ceremony is large numbers to see Raila making a fool of himself by accepting a title that is non-existent amongst the Kikuyus. Kikuyus discarded those things decades ago and Raila will be like a chokora who scavenges a garbage disposal site looking for discarded garbage.
Raila, Kikuyus are not cheap tribalists like you.
Eh, Kwani was the post again about Raila Vs Kibaki/ Or Kikuyu Vs Luos? I rest my case i guess we just need to move on.
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:51 I agree.
Their is an old saying in west africa that says "if a young man washes his hands well he can eat with the elders" Personally i dont think it is about age, it is what one can do, The MP for Cherengany is i think 30 to 31 years and the people preferred him to Kirwa. Kenyans we have been governed so badly and taken so low that we would settle for anything better from a previous regime, knowing well that we can attain something much better coz there is potential. Look at the revolution with the Y-generation CEOS in the corporate world these guys are attaining heights that the older generation could not do.
The sorry state in Kenya is i am finding someone who is in his late 20's defending his tribe as if his survival is pegged on his tribe and goes ahead to sterotype the other tribes....Trust me if you hate a tribe just learn to live with it coz no one applied to be born in a particular tribe.
I think it is us to talk to our folks to change our mindset about certain issues including tribes coz it is them who took us to that path...I blame our founding fathers but what do i gain from that apart from being frustrated at the end of the day coz now i have to make sure that i go out with the "right" tribe coz my old man doesn't want to hear anything that belongs to the perceived "wrong" tribe. Kumekucha as somebody said let us stop whinning and murmuring and move on...Their is still more land and glory to conquer.
Have you ever wondered? Asians (wahindi) dont own land in kenya but they are one successful lot and they are a force to reckon with, we can no longer ignore them in the market place but we should look at ways of cutting a niche. Right now the biggest chip company is found in Bangalore (India) and they are the best when it comes to developing software. Bill Gates might be the owner of Microsoft but ni wahindi who are developing software for him....We have the potential and given, space, reforms we can do better. You see we can no longer wait for Japan to start manufacturing cars that will use water.....and at the moment keep on complaining about the cost of fuel. Let us learn to live with it coz at the end of the day i need to go to work, school and i cant stop coz of the cost of fuel or i am waiting for a car that will use water.
Taabu, nice post.....What next?
Ivy
Anon 9:51 PM..I agree with you "Kenyans are intelligent enough to understand that if we indeed want our country to move forward economically and politically then we have to change" I think what we need is somebody or group of people to take the lead uniting the youth and showing them the way forward. In a nut shell what we need is ACTION, otherwise whatever we say here in this blogg or other bloggs will be just pure Domo. KENYA NEEDS UNITED PEOPLE READY TO TAKE ACTION, CLAMING BACK THEIR COUNTRY, NOT DREAMERS OR DOMOS.
ReplyDeleteKenyans and especially certain Kumekuchans here are very good in talking, but when it comes to realizing what they are preaching (prferably to others), then they are lost. Most of all those living abroad. They find it easy to tell those they left behind starving and suffering what to do while they themselves have preferred to live abroad leaving even sometimes their families behind like Chris did right now. You see, Kumekucha gives us all a good example how to organize our future, namely leaving Kenya and all our problems behind. So stop talking here about those who could help while being abroad. Ask them if they are willing to come back, to live again amongst the poor and you will get no answer. They dream about becoming MP's and even President, instead. Why? Because they are used to good living. They will be the first who will even tell us that their salaries have to be increased (and no taxes please). Just wait and see.
ReplyDeleteThanks Mwalimu Taabu, you did a helluva job here. I have always been for a different kind of politics than the one we see, but that will not stop me from stepping on some toes here.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, we all have to come to an agreement that none of us is a fool. The moment people start being genuinely concerned with the wellbeing of our country, Kenya (and not just some gimmick aimed at propelling someone to power through the back door), Kenya will change for the better. It will in fact no longer matter who is on top of the Presidential ticket. We have been through this before while sipping our chilled Tusker Malt or even while blogging right here at Kumekucha and it has all come to zilch.
Kenyans have for a long time been forced to choose(no, they have actually shown an unquenchable affinity for) crooks. That is exactly why Raphael Tuju, Joe Khamisi,Mutahi Kagwe, Maoka Maore and Kipruto arap Kirwa are out of parliament today. They were not voted out because they slept on the job, no, they were voted out because the benchmark was not servive delivery, but mediocrity.
Which brings us to the importance of this post. Are we willing to shun tribal stupidity once and for all and embrace meaningful change (the type that some people can believe in)? Are we willing to rally behind (after consultation with) Maina Kiai, Louis Otieno, Dr. Willy Mutunga, Muthoni Wanyeki, koki Muli, Prof Maathai and others? Are we ready to believe for the first time in ourselves as a nation, not out of some childish excitement, but out of a genuine desire for a better Kenya? Unless and until we answer yes to all these, you guys can be sure our grand kids will be right here talking about the exact same thing.
Stepping on toes now; Anon 9.51, good job. My heartfelt 'pat-on-the back', however, goes to anon 10.22. I said the same thing here last year and I know people dont like it because it is kinda bitter. Last year Raila Odinga campaigned in Othaya, the headquarters of the Kikuyuland we so much like to bash, without a hitch. The national dailies reported the reception as cordial. Mwai Kibaki (the fucking President of Kenya) could not visit Bondo (some of you will say it was voluntary) for fear of 'hooliganistic' incidinces. About three weeks ago, Raila went to Kitui Central, and the people there accorded him the respect befitting a Prime Minister. I dare Vice President Kalonzo to go to Kisumu and he will be stonned by 10,000 people. Those of us who live in a world of delusion will want to believe that Raila's welcome in Nyeri and kitui is a manifestation of how much political support he has there. Their heads have spent too much time believing that heckling and violence is the best way to show disapproval of a leader. My opinion is that people who really believe in themselves should be willing to listen to divergent views without feeling threatened.
Those proposing we talk to our (sorry, their) folks, you actually need to talk to yourselves. If you hate a tribe, yes , you don't have a choice. You have to fucking live with it!
Taabu
ReplyDeleteCan i take 5th ammendment?
Anon 12:08 you have made a valid point. I am blogging from Nairobi and i am not aspiring to be the president of Kenya nor MP coz i love what i do.
The other day i asked a Qn if the MPs are cut from a different cloth from the normal kenyan man or woman....Coz we always refer them to as kenyan Mps, who five or 6 months ago were working in the corporate world and were doing well in their fields, look out for James Rege.....
Kumekuchans how do you rate a member of parliament and say that he is good and has done a helluva job in his constituency? ...That one beats me until now......or if one brings a mobile clinic where there is no road, one is rated as good....We stoop so low, tusamehewe
Ivy
anon10:22 PM
ReplyDeleteYou are the one who is very cheap and a tribalist- not the people of Nyeri- preach buy example not hate!s that can hear you that the stop making comparisons- you are the type of individual when you loan your sister or a friend a dress to wear to a party and notice that people are noticing the way the dress looks good on your friend- you will turn round and tell to anybody who will listen to you that infact you own the dress and it is borrowed(to belittle your friend) that is called cheap and hateful) like i said the Nyeri people not you want to get passed the sterio types like you with hate full in every pore of your body and that is the way it should be- Martha karua the other day visited Luhya land and if i recall When Raila went home yes their was an MP from central province too and you should not forget ODM has other tribes too.
my question is what did Raila do to the people of Nyeri for them not to welcome him?? in 2002 he said Kibaki Tosha and they called him a Hero?? what changed??- in 2007 he disagreed with kibaki and they sorted it out the best way that they could- so what is your problem?? nasty and hateful people like you should push off and go post on mashada where people wake up morning to post insults and abuses
I am at Norwich Union Hse - in a cyber cafe. I've been in Kenya for three weeks now. I am flying out to my adopted home in Europe next week.
ReplyDeleteI have shed tears each week I have been here. Not for my family coz I help provide for them as much as I can. My tears aren't for my relatives, or my tribe.
I shed tears for the millions of Kenyans who can hardly afford a meal. The rising crude oil prices has hit hard. Millions of Kenyans craved for change, and they voted for change. Not because they believed Raila would be better, but because they knew Kibaki didn't care.
Kibaki is still the president. Kivuitu is still at ECK... the same old boys are still running the show. What is worse, Raila has joined them. There is no talk here about a re-run of the presidential race... people are talking about 2012. God, what country were we born in?
For the first time since independence, all the thieves are in one basket called a Grand-Coalition. At least as I write, there is space for genuine opposition politics. But the mafia ODM and PNU mafia will hear nothing of opposition. When the time comes, some of this thieves in the grand-coalition will walk out and claim to be the opposition. Kenyans, as foolish as we've always been, will vote for them. Unaware of signed MOUs that ensure that no fellow thief will ever face the law for whatever crime.
So, why was it that Moi had to go again?
My proposal: All legislators (from the President, Vice-President, Prime Minister down to Assistant Ministers and all MP's) should be obliged to spend at least 2 weekends per month (from Friday afternoon to Sundays) in their constituency.
ReplyDeleteNot to make some public relation speeches in churches (which most of them like to do) but to sit down with people and discuss how and where they can assist them.
I would even propose to form two groups: one by business people and one by people like medical staff, teachers, members of NGO's etc. - each of them should be given min. 3 hours to present and discuss their problems. At the end a document (minutes of meeting) should be drawn up.
Everybody should then go home (including those Officials) and find out where to help and in which way.
For the next meeting those proposals should be presented and solutions discussed and how to put them into force etc. etc.
I know this will not change things from day one. But Kenya had to wait almost 30 years for changes, people should therefore be patient enough to maybe wait 2 or 3 years more.
But if and when everybody works together (and I am saying on purpose 'everybody'), we can reach something which will maybe benefit at least our children.
Somebody here propoposed to set up one big Committee - but I personally do not think that this will work. Too many interests and too many different goals will at the end let such a committee collapse.
I think we have to go back to the roots first. It's like building a pyramid: it's needs a strong foundation before coming to the peak.
And something very important: Kenya has to become a Nation again, one Kenya. People have to learn (again) to respect each other.
Especially the young Kenyans have to learn by example what it means to take over responsibility. But most of all, they have to get the assurance that they are counting because it's them who will make the change.
So it's up to the older generation and their parents to give a positive example and to lead them, to show them that things can be changed.
Things will change if everybody works together no matter how and where, no matter if one is important or just a 'normal guy'.
It will not be easy. There is too much hate around right now - also in this blog.
Do not allow others to tell you whom to love and whom to hate. It's your life, so it's upto you alone to decide what you want.
I am sure there are different ways to come to an end of this madness.
But I am convinced that it is easier if it starts at the bottom, in the place you come from and especially where your family lives.
And one suggestion for those living abroad: keep contacts with those you left behind and see what you can do for them. Not just with words, but with deeds.
And something very important: Like the legislators should spend min. 2 weekends at their home base, also Kenyans living abroad should be obliged to spend at least 2 weeks in Kenya with their families before being allowed to open their mouth preaching some phantasy stories. It is easy to condemn others when one does not know what hunger and dispair means.
Maybe I am dreaming, maybe I am an illusionist - I hope not.
MB
anon 12:40 AM
ReplyDeleteVikii and who did Raila order the Police to shoot and kill in Nyeri or Kitui?? answer me that question - unless kibaki understand and accepts that he made a mistake personally to the luo people- what do you expect?? I doubt Vikki if we have known each other for years and you found out that i send thugs your house thugs who end up killing your parents, brothers and sisters - would you knowing the fact that i was involved in their murders welcome me to your home?? or even let me appear for their funerals??or would your friend and relatives allow or accept my appearance there knowing very well i send the thugs to kill them?? I doubt it.
so Vikii don't act like you don't recall what happened in Kisumu with order kibaki gave to the police to shoot and kill!!and why the people of nyanza have no time for Kibaki- don't abuse our intelligence here?
Kibaki has to make his peace ans that is why he welcomed Raila to Nyeri- Kibaki knows why and he still has to find a way of showing he is sorry and he was wrong by ordering the police to kill innocent people in Kisumu and if i may remind you - after Kenyatta ordered the assassination of Tom Mboya he never stepped in Nyanza until his death- he knew what he would face if he dared step in Nyanza Province and I'm sure kibaki knows that too.
this time what Kibaki did is worse than the assassination of Tom Mboya 100%- here not even young children were spared caught in the cross fire and some shoot on the backs of their mothers- who do you expect to forgive that?? can you if that was your baby carried on your back??
I will e very honest here- if that was my baby on my back shoot by the police or if anyone shoot by those police ordered by kibaki to kill was my family member - i would never forgive Kibaki and in fact i would be dreaming of ways to maliza him that would be my life's work to send him 6ft under like my baby- I'm stating facts!! I'm don't believe myself that forgiving if one touched or murdered my family members.
so can you imagine I'm not one of the ones that lost children or other family members - what exactly do you imagine this families feel for kibaki??
selective memories are sometimes peoples downfalls- unless we start accepting our mistakes in society and our leaders accept wrong doings especially such things as death of innocent citizens of Kenya then we are doomed.
secondly our leaders should stop using the law of the jungle.
I'm not a kikuyu and yet I'm so pissed of that kibaki had the audacity to use his powers to execute mungiki youths what are our courts - why were they not taken to court to answer charges and if found guilty then be booked at Kamiti prison??
you should be very wary of any leader who takes away peoples lifes at pleasure- remember ones they start it is like a disease and it becomes very easy to order ones death- look at all the examples from other African leaders who went crazy with power and too thousands of their citizens life's by just a nod- Idd Amin, Mengistu, Mobutu, Mugabe(STILL DOING IT) and west africa read the stories it seem like a trend with African leaders.
Like I said leader who takes innocent lifes for the sake of staying in power and greed has none of my respect that includes kibaki- I'm a Kenyan and as far as I'm concerned greed has taken over any sense of good governance for a very long time- i can go back since Kenya become independent and if we as kenyans refuse to open our eyes then we have no one else to blame.
so ViKKi and anon 10:22 stop covering your eyes to what happened in Kisumu and the death that the police unleashed there- stop bragging here about Raila visiting Nyeri and being welcomed- Let kibaki work out with Raila the way to go back and ask for forgiveness to those families he did harm to or else i do not see him going to that part of the country for a long long time or never- Kenyatta didn't dare!!when one has wronged someone then find a way to apologize - do not gloat and brag unless you do not understand pain of losing the ones you love then i guess it would be naive and foolish of me to expect any better from people like you who seem educated-but your arguments do not fly- you seem to be looking for reasons to keep the hate going on here- and as for the people of Nyeri and Kitui maybe those are the pure and simple examples you two should follow!!
Anon 10.22,
ReplyDeletePlease spare the Kibaki-Raila diatribe for a relevant post. Stick to the post for once PLEASE.
Why not look at it this way. Maybe the Nyeri/Kitui episode was the begining of NATIONAL RENEWAL. It has to start from somewhere but do we have to engage REASONING BY DISPLACEMENT to advance our mode of gloating and bragging? Moving on demands re-evaluatio and not swimming in previous murk.
Kenya deserves better and we have all it takes except we have sleectively chosen to go the selfishly route. Stop PRESS folks and lets chat the way out of this hole, will we?
I didn't know the culture of intolerance and violence began this year. I thought it has been an issue throughout my entire adult life.
ReplyDeleteAll in all, I apologize for demeaning this post by introducing a different issue. Let people get back on course.
Police were shooting hooligans, looters, thieves and murders in the streets of Kisumu and other towns. They did not for anyone from his home or office.
ReplyDeleteWhat had other people's vehicles, shops, business premises or the Kisumu supermarket where Luos were captured by TV cameras looting go to do with an alleged stolen election? Luos have to mature and abandon the culture of stones, laziness and looting. Use your heads and not emotions to send your points across with who ever you disagree with.
As much as police did a superb job killing the murderous Mungiki gangs, they did an excellent job killing looters and hooligans.
Kudos to the police.
Police and Kibaki owes Luos and Raila no apology.
love ,respect ,courtesy have no boundaries ethnic,tribal,racial or relegious.thats where kenyans should start.It would be the wrong approach to tackle a complex issue with an equally complex solution.start small and one can have something to build on.
ReplyDeleteOut of 19 comments only 7 are on target (with the subject matter) with varying degree of relevance. Disappointing (as expected) but not surprising that this post which required a little more introspect and innovative ideas has generally been given a wide berth. perhaps if the topic had been taabu phil chris vikii kimi mcheku, ivy pkw, wanjiku, etc had formed a political party then there would have been an avalanche of insults and praise. just re-affirms my earlier note that it takes teams of genius, skill and due diligence to build anything worthwhile but a single loony will bring it all crashing down.
ReplyDeleteanyway thanks to anon 9:51, 2:30, 6:53, ivy, kimi, bpone, vikii, taabu, MB for attemtping to stay the course.
the question was whether it was time to mobilise a different group of like minded kenyans, untainted or at least not entangled with the current crop of politicians most of whom have too many skeletons in the closet, completely or at least attemtping to be "tribeless" (nationalist), and willing to try new approaches to solving our current and recurring political and leadership mess which invariably spills over to hamper public service and delivery through corruption, ineptitude and a host of other ills.
clearly as taabu points out it may be largely a case of re-inventing the wheel and the foremost question is what new ideas can really be injected into such a process. and as kimi points out, ignoring for a moment the funding challenge is this an idea that can take shape and succeed and result in a political party?
reality check - if (please note IF) kumekucha is the barometer, then the answer is a firm NO. of the last 10 to 20 threads and comments (excluding this thread), there is an average of 40 responses per thread (some as high as 120+ comments revolving around the same ethnic and lost/suspect leadership diatribe but this post could only manage 19 of which less than 50% is relevant.
could be due to a mix of several factors such as ideology fatigue, no real new credible ideas, lost zeal, apathy, content, fear, etc
or perhaps the knowledge that we already have 110+ political parties at which rate will probably have a political party per constituency and another party may not necessarily add any new value but i go ahead of myself
what would be the challenges of such an effort
a) mobilisation
b) differentiation from the many similar ideologies currently well documented through party manifestos
c) political patronage by older (more established) parties
d) ethnicity, inequality (elitism, hegemony and chauvinism)
etc can list quite a few
advantages/opportunity
1) break away from the circuitous villainy or self re-inventing politicians (absolutely corrupt or less corrupt) who've been around parliament longer than we can remember
2) rapid results oriented
3) breakdown of structures inhibiting wider participation by larger population and special interest groups
etc, another long list is possible
however the largest challenge is to prove that its no different than any of the current larger political parties. this is a daunting task and we may find out that the parties and structures are better avenue and instead be better to mobilise our target group to become move visible and aggressive (non-violent) in charting the directions of the political party or parties of choice.
My suggestion is to form a forum that cuts across political parties pushing reform agenda beneficial for all kenyans irrespective of party
UrXlnc
UrXlnc, when we last spoke about this here, many of us had hinged our hopes on the election of the young people running in Nairobi; KJ, Kajairo, Jonathan mueke and the rest. I personally felt KJ had a real shot. We would have used his popularity as a springboard to national politics by making him the party leader. That never came to pass.
ReplyDeleteI agree about the challenges you listed. We however have to demystify the role of money in politics. Luckily for us, there is a growing disenchantment with the old oeder especially among the young people. we do not need to bribe anyone.
Like i said, the first real step towards giving the idea the impetus it deserves is by attempting to tap on the popularity of the likes of Louis Otieno, KJ, Caroline Mutoko, Paul Tergat, Musa Otieno and others by giving them prominent roles in this.
vikii
ReplyDeletekj and others fell victim to seasoned/experienced politicking which includes an assortment of crude to sophisticated political machinery.
but you're right, leveraging known personalities willing and able to venture in this arena is a strong possibility.
alternatively if these popular or well known prominent or media personalities are not interested in taking the lead, they could perhaps be asked together with others to facilitate by creating a debate forum where potential (aspiring) candidates are invited to debates in the areas where they hope to lead and as other kenyans get to know them better perhaps get elevated to national stage 2, 3 etc of debate. this would be similar to the primaries conducted for US presidential elections where candidates visit key areas to present their candidature and in turn debate issues close to the community. This if effected will certainly do away with leaders being imposed on a constituency as witness in the recent by-elections and affords the electorate an opportunity to evaluate their potential leaders. of course under the current constitution, incumbents can simply plant their proteges and heirs, and frustrate any other so this would be a really long shot. but opportunities and possibilities exist, are there sufficient number of people interested in moving such or even better ideas along, that remains to be seen.
as always bear in mind the executive, incumbent and power brokers can and will manipulate and outstage, outmaneuver and outsmart any credible threat to their powerbase at all times. i believe thats a reality/challenge that will be difficult to overcome
UrXlnc
kenyans must reclaim kenya or we are doomed. The first step in this direction is to realise that the real kenya consists of factory workers and people generally earning less than ksh 6,000 and don't speak english. Most of these people can only communicate fluently in thier mother tangs. They listen to radio and hardly watch tv.
ReplyDeleteThats the real kenya.
That is the kenya we all conveniently ignore these are the guys that vote these are the guys that go out and protest. If we can't reach this people we can't reach kenya.
Every yr we graduate theoretical anthropolgy and psychology majors all they want is a job..while a cause lies right at thier door.
We don't understand our politics....how many of you for example know that '82 was not the first coup attempt in kenaya....?
I was shocked when some guy I thought was well informed told me he had no idea tha Mau mau was only just recently un-banned. Ya our freedom fighters have been banned for 40yr plus. who have we been celebtating as heros?
We must first understand where we are coming from, the forces at play
the motivations and the we can make a plan. One thing no ploitical thug can counter is a guy who listens to the people and by this I mean the people who vote.
These guys vote for thugs because we give them a limited choice and the thugs engage them at a level we don't now for us to creat a change we must go down there we must have the courage to make forays report our experinces on KK and just keep at it until something gives lets not be hopless.
We can go region by region start at the coast for example come up with ideas to make it work.
That is my thrust...people need jobs they must see us as solution providers then they will force us to start a party starting a party first may just create more problems than solution.
Lets identify one problem and get it sorted, either by lobbying or just putting together ideas thats the way to learn the ropes.It could be a multibillion project or just a bus stop but its a beginning.
The issue of people above 50 is a red herring. The problem inkenya is that the young generation now turing 50 never listen to their fathers....they were educated, they were modern and greedy as hell and look where they got us we know think there is something wrong with age.
Utter nonsense we need wise old men now more than ever, young people can be efficient we can make the money but we need the righ elders to help create a society with some morals. We cannot whole sale villify age.
so LETS get STARTED. do a project get it announced and people will catch on if its relevant thats how great things get started. once we have the people and I stress the relevant people, no politician will stop us. we must lead by example to steal the thunder from the thugs
we must come up with concrete ideas solve the peoples problems this shoul be easy cause the politicinas are doing nothing.
There is a leadership gap in this country and it should be easy to fill just avoid the party and NGO route that is filled with known landmines.
The best andgle is like what Obama did become a community organiser and try and limit your self to simple solotions and things that will not require funding that may take a yr to get if you get it that is.
I have been wondering we have been cooking with kimbo all our lives it time they gave back some of that moolah they have made from us as in we can attract some money by creating promotions that companies will not resist......If we want to do this and we should we will....
Sir Alex
UrXlnc, how to start up the forum you have proposed? Can you oblige? You have the gist of the idea down pat.
ReplyDeleteVikii, you too have very interesting views, except that you have to get out of the mentality that only prominent personalities can make leaders. That is not likely to bring about any fundamental change.
I do not for instance believe that the likes of KJ, Mutoko or Louis Otieno necessarily make good leaders. They are very good at their jobs, but that does not automatically make them good leaders. GOOD LEADERS WILL ONLY COME FROM THE GRASSROOTS RIGHT UP TO THE NATIONAL LEVEL. If the above prominents would like to lead the proposed party, they must first sign up to its ideals and objectives, which means that the party must have an ideology and a manifesto FIRST AND FOREMOST. Secondly they must seek election from the grassroots. We do not want or need egoistic Primadonnas and Belladonnas, they are the reason Kenya has failed. Those candidates (from people with standard 3 education to university professors)able to articulate and sell convincingly to the targeted youth the party ideals, will become the elected party officials and leaders, and the 2012 Presidential candidate will come up the same way.
You have correctly stated that the establishment will do everything in their power to snuff out the proposed party, that is why you must go to the people as the people are your best protection.
We must have transparency and fairness right from the outset and everything MUST BE DONE IN THE OPEN and MUST have the approval of party members, otherwise the party will be just another carbon copy of other registered parties.
Sunlight, they say, is the best disinfectant.
hi kimi
ReplyDeletethis thread got swallowed up by the udaku threads.
i think we can mobilize a small enough group to work with other interested like minds or groups.
like i said earlier, this blog is not ideal for such a discussion and tentatively set up a blog/chat specific to this topic
if interested we can start pointing people to it, but do not be surprised at lacklustre response
UrXlnc
UrXlnc
ReplyDeleteYou are right, on the spot.This issue really needs some seriousness .Starting another blogg for it will not only be a good idea but the fist step claming back our country. Please do it now and do it fast. I am sure there are many people outside there ready to give their views. Can remember few months back you had brilliant ideas which you discussed in this blogg, it seems those ideas just got lost in thin air…swallowed by the udaku stories as usual.
MMP
MMP, Kimi and other like minded
ReplyDeleteI have set up a temporary blog/chat facility at
http://www.chatzy.com/855766165998
let me know if you can/cannot access this service
in order to be able to allow for intelligent moderation it does require that a user registers a valid email address before you can use the service (the email however remains confidential and is not used for spamming or viewed by others etc).
you may choose to use your existing email account but you can also temporarily register for a free email address with any provider (use a nickname) then use that to sign up
this is an interim measure and will upgrade in phase 2 of the process to a more elegant service (currently in the works) due for release anytime soon.
the chatzy site is a little clunky especially the first time you attempt to logon and will email you a password to the email provided, but it is an excellent forum for blog/chat features for a specific topic. feel free to log on there and I'll catch up with you over there.
If we can generate sufficient creative matter especially when we launch the improved service in phase 2, we will try to take it to phase 3. All these details will be availed to you in the chat
Thanks and look forward to hearing from all you guys interested in moving forward
UrXlnc
UrXlnc, you are right. Too much heat and no light.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to have some ideas on how to start the blog so why not just go ahead and direct us on where to go. I am not too good with comps myself. Maybe you can start one on the lines of Kenyaimagine where hecklers and hotheads get beaten down real quick by the editors, which is a good idea you may borrow. However, as much as Kenyaimagine is good, it veers off into intellectual debating way off the radar of most young Kenyans, the people who need the most to get involved. We do not need professorial discussion, it bores people.
We need a blog that encourages simple but concise and clearly understood debate and discussion, but discourages bombast, insults, lies and tribalism.
I am ready to rock and roll.
follow this link below
ReplyDeleteKenya - Issue Based Discussion
if that doesn't work i'll try a different method
if you are not emailed a password on registering use pnuodm
ReplyDeleteUrXlnc