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Saturday, February 28, 2009

Conversation Between 2 Kenyans

1st Kenyan: Mambo?

Other Kenyan: Poa.

1st Kenyan: I am sick of the corruption going on in Kenya.

Other Kenyan: So am I. My Dad lost his job as a result of corruption. Life for our family was never been the same since.

1st Kenyan: Sorry to hear about that. What exactly happened?

Other Kenyan: He refused to look the other way. All he needed to do was sign some stupid document. He flatly refused to do so, said his conscience wouldn’t allow him to.

1st Kenyan: Your dad is a hero, you know that?

Did you know that if your hard drive crashes you reduce the chances of successful data recovery by trying to revive the hard drive on your own. It is always a better idea to call in the experts then.

Other Kenyan: Yeah. But being a hero unfortunately does not pay the bills. Anyway, how did your dad make his money?

1st Kenyan: He is a businessman.

Other Kenyan: What business does he do?

1st Kenyan: He has a company that supplies stationary and office stuff. He started it from humble beginnings when he was still a civil servant.

Other Kenyan: I would bet you that his biggest client is the Kenyan government.

1st Kenyan: Yeah. How did you know that? Do you know him?

Other Kenyan: Of course not but I know that is how the rich make their money in Kenya, especially former civil servants.

1st Kenyan: (Getting visibly uncomfortable) My Dad hates corruption. Talks about it all the time.

Other Kenyan: Well my dad doesn’t just talk about it, he tried to do something tangible against it and look what happened to our lives?

1st Kenyan: I am really sorry to hear about what happened to your family. So you guys live in Kayole?

Other Kenyan: Yes. In a tiny room that we all squeeze into. We have to close our eyes when our parents are dressing.

1st Kenyan: GOSH!!! But at least you save money to go to the supermarket don’t you?

Other Kenyan: Supermarket?

1st Kenyan: Yeah prices are lowest at the supermarket are they not?

Other Kenyan: You obviously have no idea what living from hand to mouth is all about. You never have enough, let alone some cash to go into a supermarket.

1st Kenyan: I think I have a rough idea of what it is like to be poor. When we were young and my dad was still working for the government we used to eat Matumbo a lot. And sukuma wiki.

Other Kenyan: Did you ever go hungry?

1st Kenyan: No. But eating some things is worse than going hungry.

Other Kenyan: I see.

1st Kenyan: Well at least we agree on what needs to be done in Kenya. We need brand new leadership.

Other Kenyan: I think we need a president who understands that eating some things is NOT worse than going hungry.

1st Kenyan: Ouch!! I did not mean it that way.

Other Kenyan: What if that man is poor himself, would you elect him or her as president?

1st Kenyan: Now there is a problem there. Poor people are mostly dishonest and thieves. There was this maid from a very poor family who stole all my mums shoes and clothes when she was at work.

Other Kenyan: My dad is a poor man so are you saying he is not honest?

1st Kenyan: Well your dad is exceptional.

Other Kenyan: Not really. There are a number of people I know who did very similar things to what he did. They are his friends mostly. The ones who have stuck with him. My dad says that the difference between a rich man and a poor man is that the rich man is greedier.

1st Kenyan: Well as long as this poor president had an Ivy school education like President Obama, I think I can vote for them.

Other Kenyan: Well if they are poor chances are that they will not have had an Ivy school education. Education is expensive and mostly the children of the corrupt in Kenya are the ones who had those opportunities.

1st Kenyan: How will they rule without a good educational background?

Other Kenyan: As my dad always says, all we need is a man of integrity. Period. We just need to stop the corruption. You realize of course that stopping corruption will affect your family business negatively?

1st Kenyan: No way!!! Anyway we all want change. Change will make everybody prosper.

Other Kenyan: Nope. I think real change will cause lots of upheaval amongst the rich in Kenya.

(To be continued if you readers feel it was worth continuing. Please let me know.)


Anonymous said...


Allow me to digress. Since Molasses Raila suggests we outs-source the chairman of the Electral Commission, I suggest we start with out-sourcing the PM job. As it is now, this Raila-coordinated-and-supervised govt has failed to deliver. This thug of a PM must either be held responsible for coordinating corruption rings and supervising extra-judicial killings by the govt. or charged with reckless disregard for duty.

Anonymous said...

1:44 AM, I dont see any post allowing you to digress. Hence I dint even bother reading past the 1st line.
Spare us your childish rants about Raila...yes shut your trap!!!

So Chris, Personally, I'm looking forward to the continuation of that conversation!

Anonymous said...

Just go on

Mai Ma Nguku said...

Chris, you are so obsessed by rich people in Kenya, are you not rich yourself?

Leave the rich to enjoy their wealth, we can't be all equal.

Lets concentrate on more important issues like kick-starting Kalonzo campaign ready for 2012.


Anonymous said...


You have spoken very well:

"Real change will cause lots of upheaval amongst the rich in Kenya."

Real change will also cause lots of upheaval amongst trash like Anon 1:44AM. He has digressed and then farted shit here with his pumbavu, Kibaki ass loving, ass licking and Kibaki shit gobbling.

Anon 1:44 AM, Go stuff your Raila hatred up you arse hole where it belongs.

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:22 AM,

Ati Kalonzo "Msaliti" Musyoka for president? Kwenda huko.

Kalonzo "Msaliti" Musyoka is a very great admirer of former president Daniel "Kleptocrat" arap Moi. That alone say a lot about Kalonzo "Msaliti" Musyoka's character. They are both hypocrites who claim to be "saved" and have accepted Jesus christ as their personal saviour; they both never fail to attend church. That is the outward picture that they project. Lakini Lo!!! ndani yao hawa ni MASHETANI.

Kalonzo "Msaliti" MusyokaHe would be just a disastrous repeat of Moi error (yes, error not era) of 24 years

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:35 AM
Who did Kalonzo betray?

Anonymous said...

I need good, compelling reasons to vote for Kalonzo. am open minded and willing to be pursuaded either way.

Chris, i agree with your comments about the rich and poor. Something shoild be done to discourage a few people being rich so that we get a huge middle class in kenya to support the economy. That is the only way capitalism thrives : if there is a huge middle class people in a country with purchasing power.

Anonymous said...

At least i support this organisation

What do you do?

Anonymous said...

Kaonzo is a tribalist. Have you noticed that the Minisry of Home affairs is suddenly mushroomed with Kambas despite their small number compared to the rest of Kenyans?

I also realised this when the prisons advertised vacancies for various cadres and three quaters of the people taken were Kamba

Shetani Ashindwe!

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:46 AM,

Wewe ni mbuzi. To answer your question would be like kuchezea mbuzi guitar. You will fare even worse that the herbivorous mbuzi, you will REFUSE to get it

Anonymous said...

I like the conversation, however the message I'm getting is that all the fortunate ones have different views to those who are not as fortunate. It's crazy. Chris its like your're portraying the rich as ignorant and selfish. It's not a balanced world and yes we do have a lot ignorant and selfish people both rich and poor, black or caucasian.

I'd be delighted if for once you at least spread the message of unity, peace in this blog whilst at the same still reporting what exactly is happening in the grassroots in Kenya.

Another thing I want to state to one of the comments and Kenyans is general is not to got to some department or comapny and start complaining about how its filled with mostly one tribe and all. It's annoying how we always find Kenyans (myself included) always complaining about this and that instead of just focusing on our goals and the core principles such intergrity, discipline and etc.

Anonymous said...

What is wrong with a Kamba holding any position in Kenya?Why do some people like to believe Kalonzo doesnt deserve to be where he is but Kibaki and Raila do?Well,let me post a warning to those Luos and kiuks who think Kenya is theirs to squabble about while the rest of us cheer on the sidelines that their time is up.We too have a voice.Am a Kamba and proud of it,mta do?

Anonymous said...

Continue the conversation, but dont always assume the rich are selfish and dont care about the plight of the poor.

Alot of these so called rich people are employers who struggle everyday to keep their small businesses afloat,provide for their families and keep their employees with a job. why is every rich person supposedly corrupt?

That is really far-fetched, so please give the rich one a bit of a better angle, even within that banner their are distinct differences, some people are wealthy, but it is because they worked honestly and hard, and they dont deserve to be ostracized.

John Maina said...

Just finished reading Githongo's new book on Its our time to eat.
Apart from the obvious evidenced highlights i.e. kibaki is senile and hardly in control of the presidency from the Mt. Kenya Mafia. Just like his cahoots Kibaki is no saint from his time as a finance minister, v.p to president he is the corruption godfather and the mafia runs their errands with his full support.
Githongo's chronology of corruption highlights the well known factors that the vice is so entrenched even those that represent the voice of the voiceless are in it. Media/Church are comprimised too.
on page 243 the book highlight Kimunya visit to london and his primitive comments that uncircumised pple cannot rule kenya.

Interestingly, the book ends on githongo's thoughts in setting a base in mathare to run for a political office in the near future.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:19 AM,

Kalonzo "Msaliti" Musyoka ni PUNDA.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:19 AM,

Kalonzo "Msaliti" Musyoka ni PUNDA.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:19 AM,

Kalonzo "Msaliti" Musyoka ni PUNDA.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:19 AM,

Kalonzo "Msaliti" Musyoka ni PUNDA.

Anonymous said...

5:28 John Maina @ 5:28 AM,

I've also just finished reading the book (Our time to eat. The title should actually have been Our (Mt Kenya mafia) time to STEAL).

It's a sad confirmation of the fact that the Kibaki, Kimunya and the rest of the Mt Kenya Govt are driven by FRAUD, DECEPTION, THEFT and rabid TRIBALISM....... and yet the vast majority of the Mt Kenya people voted for it. This is disgusting.

Anonymous said...

there is free medical health care and enough food for all in cuba today

Anonymous said...

I am told that this is a true story:

One day kenyatta while president visited likoni. He toured the area. He saw a beautiful well kept farm. He was so impressed that he summoned one of his persons and said that he wanted that property, that his person should go and find the owner and offer to buy it.

A few days later Kenyatta summoned his person and asked him what the delay was. His person told him he was having difficulty finding the owner as it was owned by a corporation.

A few days later this person came to see Kenyatta and said that he wanted to inform Kenyatta who the current owner was before he put in an offer.

Kenyatta said he did not mind who the current owner was - he just wanted to buy the farm. Kenyatta's person insisted on telling him who the owner was. So Kenyatta said: 'ok, tell me who the current owner is'. His person said: 'Mama Ngina Kenyatta. Do you still want to put in and offer.' Kenyatta replied 'no!'

Vikii said...

Interesting stuff.

John Maina, glad to know that you read, at least you have started to. Now don't stop with "Our Time To Eat". You should continue reading and you will soon find out how fulfilling it is.

Chris, here we go again. People like you are not part of the solution in Kenya, they are part of the problem. Like Kalamari told you a couple days ago, what we need now is a united country with a common purpose. You are trying to propagate class warfare and jealousies and believe you me it is that cave mentality that got us in our current state in the first place.

In your little conversation, the "Other kenyan" comes out as someone so quick to put blame and accusations of corruption on the '1st Kenyan's' father based not on any facts, but on a rather naive and stupid belief that all those who do business with the government are corrupt. We have continued to argue like fools. It is not a sin to be rich. We all want to be rich, don't we? We have formed a habit of lynching everyone who has money or power as if there is anything wrong with these posessions. We are criminalizing riches in our stupid assumption that it is impossible to engage in honest hard work and ethical business and make money out of it.

On the other hand, the 1st Kenyan labels all those who are poor as thieves. Fuck, dont you see that the only thing your post does is to sow unnecessary cross-class suspicion?

Look here, there are some poor people who are very honest human beings and there are also poor people who are asshoes. A rich person does not have to be inhuman. He could be a kick-ass guy or a complete dickhead. You dont form an opinion of my person based on how much money I have.

About this nonsense that leads us to believe that what we need in a President is experience with poverty, well, who are you fooling here? How many of you voted for Jeremiah Nixon Kukubo in last year's polls if a humble background is the new benchmark of integrity? Did you all not vote for those people James Orengo once referred to as cerelac babies?

Chris, you can do better than that. Last year we had the same arguments where you tried to tell us that we should vote for a young person just because President Clinton and Tony Blair were elected leaders of their countries at a young age. It is not their youth that made them great leaders. We have an equal number of young leaders who are a whack job just as those old leaders who are a disgrace. Similarly we have poor folks who are morally rotten and rich folks who are the devil reincarnate AND VICE-VERSA. It is not about age or class, it should be about substance and uprightness. Otherwise, you can castigate rich people all you want, but I promise you that will not make you rich, nor will it solve your problems.

Anonymous said...

There is this moron that keep popping-up here occasionally by the name John Maina. Not only this very stupid person is thick but he is also an asshole. Today I am impressed by his English and secondly not ranting against other bloggers.

The dimwit cannot write anything positive or anything of a substance. John Maina if you don't know your embarrassment to yourself!

Anonymous said...

John Maina is trying to redeem his image after it was revealed he is a paedophile.
Don't waste your time with a useless uneducated criminal.

Anonymous said...

Kalonzo for President!

He is honest and non-tribal.

He loves development and peace.

He hates corruption and violence.

He has never tried to create a personality cult.

Kalonzo for President!

Anonymous said...

Raila ni msaliti.
He betrayed Kenya by being corrupt - he stole the Kisumu Molasses Factory with the help of Moi.
He betrayed Kenya by preaching tribalism and violence in an attempt win elections.

Msaliti Raila ashidwe!

Sayra said...


Looking and having interest in sideshows is a perfect way to escape and a perfect way of 'shouting' to all that care to listen that you are not interested in a solution.The issue of been rich or poor has nothing to do with a kind of a leader one can be or is. Murangaru and Saitoti according to you Chris were poor guys but look the kind of leaders they turned out to be. UK and Mudavidi are guys who don't know what it means to lack but they definitely are not the kind we want to lead us politically.

Lets not get carried away by details that don't count even one bit in helping solve the problem. You don't have to be poor to understand the problems that many Kenyans go through on a daily basis ... you just got to be human and open your eyes and see ... that is ALL you NEED. From there if you are a leader find the solutions with the intention of implementing them and get the right people to help you achieve that.

But details of been poor or rich have no other purpose but to keep people holed up and keeping them from seeing beyond their material wealth/needs.

joe the choma man said...

"Chriso" aka "Chris"
the 2 kenyans in this conversation have negative attitudes toward life-in fact i suspect they are very greedy

heroes are to be found only in Rambo movies so "Kenyan number 2" should know that even though times have changed if you're poor its still your fault who told you to be?nobody cares how you make your money as long as you make it-Dr.Kibaki understands this too

Anonymous said...


A while ago my dear friend Kwale posted a comment here about this subject of rich and poor and this is what he had to say:

Originally posted by Kwale Thursday, December 04, 2008

“…The gap between rich and poor is the product of the social system. Many people like to blame poverty on the poor, some blame genetics, arguing that the poor are actually genetically inferior, others argue that the poor are simply uneducated, or that they lack the self control to save instead of spending.

All of these arguments are wrong. There have been numerous studies looking at the intelligence and behavior of the poor. The general conclusion is that the poor are a product of their environment and nothing else. The poverty problem originates in our social system; our laws, our economic structure and the way capital in our system is distributed.

So, that leads us to the next question how do we close the gap between the rich and the poor? I think the entire system really needs overhaul re-structuring. Currently the wealth of our nation is concentrated by 10% of the population which has ranked Kenya as one of the most unequal society. (I believe it's the third or so most unequal society in the world after India and Brazil)

To reform such a system you need a well-balanced redistribution of wealth. This could mean harsh inheritance (death) tax, perhaps as high as 90% of inheritance. A less radical way to reform the system would be to tax the rich more, but at not on high level. Also we should have a minimum wage structure which should contain government subsidies so that it does not hurt the private firms and companies, or else it will result in high inflation which can force companies to shut down warehouses and other workstations, causing even further unemployment.
Besides robust distribution system, there should be a change in our criminal laws, a change in the way military and Mps funding is spent (and how much of it is spent) and there must be greater spending on education, housing and medical care….”

Anonymous said...

There is nothing wrong in becoming rich, but it is wrong to get rich by using short cuts.

Dr Murungaru, e.g., became a billionare over night in 2003 after his small pharmacy became a gov drugs supplier. The man has bought the whole Nyeri.

Nicholas Biwott became a multi-billionare just within 4 years. At that time a minister was earning 12,000/-Sh.

These 2 examples show how Kenyans use their positions to loot.

Believe me that this is wrong. Whether you are a Luhya, a Kale, a Kikuyu or a Luo, we should use our educated minds to stop this.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:26 AM,

...And Raila Odinga became a billionare within two years after he was appointed Energy Minister by Moi.

Taabu said...

Sorry but YOUR GUS IS COOKED. Good luck lakini. Unprecedented ama? Just have a look (and not player #12 called bahati!!!!)

1. Club World Cup - CHECK
2. Carling cup - CHECK
3. PL - as good as...
4. FA - bag open to receive
5. CL - bring it on

Ever heard of seeing the BLUES? Well money never buys pedigree, poor Roman.

You will always WALK ALONE, especially when Boro is breathing fire.

Anonymous said...

@anon 9:35
name em all. Nyachaye, Kalonzo, Kenyatta (Uhuru), Kibaki, Ruto, Kituyi, Wambui Kibaki (sorry WaMWAI), Moi, Youth 92 members, etc.

The list is long. That explains why we are poor and the roads are bad, why you are paying school fees and why there is no maize, why there is Mungiki, etc

Anonymous said...

Before the dec 2007 elections the local surveys were saying Mweshimwa Raila Odinga would win; we heard whispers here overseas that this would never happen even if it know.

Whats to stop massive vote rigging in 2012?? I'm sure a committee is already working on this (ie how to rig) at the moment. One of the following would prevent bloodshed:

1. ask UN to adminster the elections (very embarassing for kenya - will never be done)

2. fill ECK with foreigners, kenya asians and europeans (would not happen - they will fear their lives)

3. hire private security firms to protect, and prevent tampering by ECK - the private american security firms should be free by then (I like this - US can pay for it)

4. ask US to adminster the elections (yes and they can pay for it)

5. ban elections and make Kenya a one party state (US and kenya pseudo intellectuals will never go for it- the latter were the same people who insisted on reading Karl Marx in Nairobi during one party state)

6. bring in Moi's queque voting system for choosing the president -it's cheap and everyone can see which is the bigger line.(US would not like this)

7. ask the kenyan armed forces to adminster the voting; (this means they will have to leave their barracks..might work but too embarrasing)

Ah Ah!! if only Moi did not have pickpocket ministers he could have been made president for there would have been peace ..prosperity and no much fewer dead people from election violence

Anonymous said...

from nairobi chronicles:

Kenyan politics is filled with characters who have done much worse than Saitoti. The present 42 member cabinet is a collection of convicted fraudsters, thieves, killers and sex predators. Saitoti has never been convicted of theft let alone other heinous crimes perpetrated by his colleagues who, interestingly, are hugely popular.

Saitoti needs to talk more to the Kenyan people about his presidential bid. He needs to become his own man and shake off the image of aloofness that he is known for. He needs to give more information about his family and about his past.

If he doesn’t do these, he will not connect with the voters.

Anonymous said...

from nairobi chronicles

Lack of Transparency by World Bank, Local Corporations and ignorance, fear or silence by the local Media to question everything
Check this out - Taxpayer money (mostly from developed countries) flows into the World Bank. Some of the money is funneled down to the International Finance Corporation (IFC), the private investment wing of the World Bank. Through it’s Capital Markets Division, the IFC helps and advises governments of less developed countries grow and modernise their capital markets.

In IFC’s own words,

“IFC, a member of the World Bank Group, creates opportunity for people to escape poverty and improve their lives. We foster sustainable economic growth in developing countries by supporting private sector development, mobilizing private capital, and providing advisory and risk mitigation services to businesses and governments.”

So it was a shocking surprise when I came across this press release by the IFC and learnt that it plans to hold a stake in CMC Aviation Limited. CMC aviation is part of a conglomerate run by CMC Holdings and includes interests in aviation leasing, auto dealerships and distributorships with major global manufacturers and even computing. The company is so huge it has spread it’s wings all over East Africa and is looking to expand even further - an African multi-national chaebol if you will.

This is not exactly what Ronald Reagan had in mind in 1984 when he praised the IFC and referred to it as an organisation that is, “generating private resources and stimulating private initiative in the development effort”.

In the current global economic downturn that the whole world finds itself in, money needs to reach the small businesses that are (or should be) the true engines of any economy. Look at what is happening to Ford, FM and Chrysler here in the US.

There needs to be similar outrage in the lack of transparency by the World Bank, the IFC and the corporations that are involved in these kinds of deals. Lucky for the rich countries in the West, they have their rich governments to bail them out. For poorer countries like Kenya, the only place to go is the World Bank and the IFC in particular but with these kinds of deals going on behind closed doors and the mainstream media sitting pretty on it’s butt, it’s quite unlikely that anything will trickle down to where it’s needed the most; the small businessman and woman

Vikii said...

Taabu, the most glaring example of a lucky (bahati) victory is one achieved through a penalty shoot-out.

Just to remind you, Taabu, the league is not over. It is far from over and Chelsea remain a strong candidate. As for the Champions League, and again just to remind you, Jose mourinho, the god of football, will be a guest at Old Trafford in ten days or so.

Taabu said...

Just wondering what language LUCK speak: Protuguese or Ducth? I give it to you on loyalty even if backing a dead horse, albeit not stinking yet. No prizes for runner up, mark you? Just ask Ballack for being 2nd in 4 competions last year. Nice to see clubs jostle for #2 while the ONLY INSTITUTION runs roghshold. 2 gone, 3 to come and FYI Mourihno's gimmicks (intimidating refs) won't work. OT=THREATRE OF ACTUALIZED DREAMS, pole lakini lil bro.

Vikii said...

taabu, luck actually speaks Scot English.

I have been witnessing Mario Balotelli's second half destruction of AS Roma. Just pray the kid does not start at Old Trafford. Fuck Ibra, with Adriano's giant frame supplementing Balotelli's amazing skills,I dont see how Man-useless survives.

joe the choma man said...

TeacherT aka Taabu,
Champions league bado kazi inaendelea

boro=borrowed time. one man(SD) is not an army

Taabu said...

The wilderness so vast and YOU WALK ALONE, ole wako. True one man (SG) in no army. Beating RM may have just been a fluke just like Blues hand onto Jose's auctioned coat tails.

That LUCK of your must be RACIST, ashindwe. FYI there OT has been renamed capital of EU trophies, but do they say.

Just ask C-man LV has NEVER WARN the PL imagine and OT has it 10+1 times and you claim to be in teh same league?

All those single names you drop were never spelt at San Siro so chill and crate on me, Jose kwisha.

Anonymous said...

Go on please.

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