And with that loaded question off my chest I have just been informed that a poll on KTN News asking respondents if they believe the church can stop the draft constitution at the referendum stage has clearly revealed the mood of Kenyans on the ground.
71% said NO. Meaning that those 71% will defy the church and vote YES for the new constitution.
What I find extremely ridiculous about all this debate on the draft constitution is how every Kenyan has suddenly become an expert constitutional lawyer and the result is total confusion. Whom are we trying to impress?Take one of the most contentious issues in the draft concerning abortion. The truth is that the current constitution and laws of the land are much more liberal than the draft which has constitutionalized it and declared it NOT allowed. And yet these experts have not come out to analyze the penal code for us. Now know-it-all-Kenyans with absolutely no legal training and with no sense to ask those who know have rushed in and started making all kinds of sweeping statements to confuse the people. Me thinks that this whole circus is much more deliberate than we may think and it may in fact have been carefully choreographed. It is as if the constitution is written in stone and cannot be amended under any circumstances.
Fortunately it looks like Kenyans will not be hoodwinked this time. The people of Kenya clearly know what they want and it is a new constitution. The draft constitution is not perfect and many Kenyans are unhappy about many sections. But then the truth is that no constitution has ever been greeted with wide acceptance because it is perfect. It has never happened in history and it never will.
What I can say about this draft is that it gives Kenyans a hell of a chance at a new start and that is better than what the long suffering people of this country have had for decades.
But let me quickly add that there is a group of Kenyans opposed to the new constitution whom I understand very well. They are asking a simple question. How could president Kibaki, the man who killed their dream and Bomas draft suddenly turn round and become the biggest supporter of the new constitution, going even against his bosom buddy retired President Moi who seems all set to campaign for a “no vote once again. These smart Kenyans are very suspicious and I can’t blame them.
I like being honest. I don’t know the answer to that question… YET. But you can be sure that I am working on it. Moi I understand very well because the new constitution will put him and his ill-acquired family wealth on notice. The old man has very selfish reasons for rejecting any major changes to the Kenya he helped mess-up and destroy in many ways. But Kibaki is a puzzle. The man is rarely enthusiastic about anything. Even the fiddling of votes was done so unenthusiastically that it was difficult to hide from the people and he was thus caught with his hands in the cooky jar. But all of a sudden the man is extremely passionate for the new constitution to the extent where he even grounded his cabinet ministers from traveling out of the country until the thing sailed through parliament. Some people think that some kind of deal has been made for him to save his neck if he pushes through reforms and most notably the new constitution. Well, I don’t know about that, but give me a little time and I will get back to you.
But what I do know is that what the president is pushing for this time will benefit Kenya tremendously. I have stated that clearly for those who trust my judgment in these things and would like to know what I think. And I would add once again that my vote is a firm YES for the new constitution in the coming referendum vote.
Lakini musilale, bado mapabano.. The passing of the new constitution will not be the end of our problems but it will be a good start for the long hard fight that we must see through.
The Kumekucha classifieds that some people are fighting against: Includes property listings.
Birth pangs for the new unrecognizable Kenya
The last person who should give a piece of advice on the constitution is Moi. He sees it coming. All those who got their wealth through the back door are in panic mode. Some junior MPs with the support of Ruto whom they follow blindly are prepared to vote NO to please their "master". How do you expect "wakoloni" like Michuki to vote yes?
ReplyDeleteNice piece Chris!. It is important for the loud-mouthed nay sayers to be made aware that the ground has massively shifted beneath them. To the so-called church leaders, the resurgent YK92, KKK, Michuki, Arap Toroitich & all those maliciously opposing the draft; Here is my message to them: Bring it on! Oh yes go on & shoot it down babie! The writing is on the wall for elements of retrogression. It does not take much to decipher why Ruto-Kalonzo-Uhuru axis will want the draft rejected. Unfortunately they trusted President Kibaki so much to put their interests ie ambition to succeed him as first and last thing. They made themselves to believe that they hold Kibaki to a ransom and that he could never pursue an agenda albeit patriotic as long as it conflict their power-game plan. What has shocked this group is the realization that the proposed constitution could most certainly open up space for competition to what they'd perceived as their birth-right ie power & wealth. In the event that this draft passes it will be an up-hill task for Kibaki to manage his succession let alone hand the presidency on silver plater to Kaloozer & fellow stooges like Uhuru "computer error" parsatt & Arap Mahindi. What still puzzle me as well is Kibaki's sudden change of heart. What are his motives in embracing this change that would most likely expose his boys to oblivion? Is it Obama pressure? An assurance from RAO? Or simply an act of redemption from a man so loathed for pussie-footing?
ReplyDeleteThe reason why the NO side is cornered is their lack of justification to advocate for rejection of draft in-toto. There is simply no convincing & coherent arguement from this camp. Indeed most of their fans/constituents might want to buy in to the flimsy excuses like Kadhi Courts, Abortion. However a resounding majority of Kenyans irrespective of political, religious or ethnic persuasions are NOT prepared to throw the baby with bathwaters. The new draft offers soo much to loose for a single grievance championed by one erratic ethnic war-lord or a narrow-minded Cardinal clergy.. Am very relieved as most Kenyans that this draft will sail through. The actual next stopover for this Grand shuttle is referendum with inevitable YES. All the rest till then are sideshows & exercise in futility. As the saying goes, You can defeat a Napoleonic Army But You cannot stop an idea whose time has come. Katiba sasa, wapende wasipende.
Chris, are you serious when you quote that non scientific KTN news time poll that has SMS's charged premium rates?
ReplyDeleteI dont know whether to laugh or cry but it seems Chris who we all knew and respected is gone and may have handed Kumekucha keys to fellows who are taking their audience for fools.
Secondly, why did you not quote those particular clauses on abortion in the current constitution vis a vis the current draft law? We have seen both and we can safely tell you that you have missed the boat by a couple of rivers on this one.
Nimesema (the real one)
Kibaki has no choice but to support reforms including the new constitution. Obama is applying immense pressure from one side and RAO from the other. He's between a rock and a hard place..damn everyone else he's saving his own behind this time.
ReplyDeleteWhile many people may think that the KTN SMS survey is not conclusive I have combined the results of that survey with intensive research I have been doing on the ground. Both concur and are not very different in terms of percentages.
ReplyDeleteThe writing is on the wall. Kenyans will vote overwhelmingly for the new draft. I suspect that the intensive media campaign that has highlighted those standing in the way of the new constitution has helped a great deal in shaping public opinion in favour of this new document.
Anon @ 6:12 pm you sound like you are in a panic that the new constitution will actually pass. If this is true, don't worry my friend, you are not alone. There are many wealthy Kenyans and those in the political class who are sweating blood right now. But sorry, the majority of Kenyans are NOT with you.
-Chris-
P.S. anon @ 6:12 pm, do a little home work and you will discover that by putting the abortion clause in the constitution and using the words "is NOT permitted" the argument by the church and others that people will use the wording to justify abortion is dead in the water. Do you guys remember seeing this game in parliament where people read subsections out of context with the introduction of the entire section? Strangely enough most people who are arguing on the side of the church are NOT lawyers and are relying on their knowledge of the English language and reading subsections out of context.
Chris,
ReplyDeletePlease do not ignore the clause on citizenship that says
"A child found in Kenya who is or appears to be less than eight years
of age, and whose nationality and parents are not known, is presumed
to be a citizen by birth"
Who is this clause for? This is a clause incerted by Al shabaab
Sam ochola,
ReplyDeletewhy do luos talk so loudly even when writing. In my experience loud mouthed people are also ugly and stupid. Perhaps they talk loudly because they think no one is paying them any attention. Now go and pray to raila.
Ati arap mahindi! who is the real mahindi guy? I wont say for I might be "stoned" here. But why do these people like calling other people names, especially those not supporting "you know who"? And when you say something negative about them, they say you hate them. geez.
ReplyDeleteWill be brief and straight to the point.
ReplyDelete1. I'm with you Chris and also believe the draft will be passed at the referendum. Sure it's not perfect and will never be, but for heaven's sake it's light years better than the current one! I looked at my beautiful baby daughter today deep in the eyes and decided that I will also vote YES!
2. Kibaki is simply embracing the draft to reddem his tarnished legacy that has been defined by corruption, deceit, fraud arrogance and violence.
3. Once again, the church is on the wrong side of history and regardless whether they stick to their NO vote or do a quick U-turn, they are screwed either way. These fundamentalist Christians are in it either for a quick buck or publicity with one eye singularly trained on 2012. Don't be surprised to see the likes of Njue and Karanja seeking parliamentary seats in the next elections.
4. Moi the old crook is saying NO purely for- as you would expect- selfish reasons to protect his huge ill gotten wealth that has made him one of the richest men in Africa.
I urge all Kenyans of goodwill to join me and vote YES in the referendum. As Chris said, the laws are not cast in stone. Changes can always be effected later on.
Good day!
I have looked at the draft constitution and the Penal code and these are the details.
ReplyDeletePart 2 –Rights and fundamental freedoms
Right to life (Revised Clause)
26. (1) Every person has the right to life.
(2) The life of a person begins at conception.
(3) A person shall not be deprived of life intentionally, except to the extent authorised by this Constitution or other written law.
(4) Abortion is not permitted unless, in the opinion of a trained health professional, there is need for emergency treatment, or the life or health of the mother is in danger, or if permitted by any other written law.
Cap 63: Penal Code on abortion
Chapter 15 (Offences against morality)
Section 158 -Attempts to procure abortion:
Any person who, with intent to procure miscarriage of a woman, whether she is or is not with child, unlawfully administers to her or causes her to take any poison or other noxious thing, or uses any force of any kind, or uses any other means whatever, is guilty of a felony and is liable to imprisonment for fourteen years.
Section 159 - The like by woman with child:
Any woman who, being with child, with intent to procure her own miscarriage, unlawfully administers to herself any poison or other noxious thing, or uses any force of any kind, or uses any other means whatever, or permits any such thing or means to be administered or used to her, is guilty of felony and is liable to imprisonment for seven years.
Section 160 - Supplying drugs or instruments to procure abortion:
Any person who unlawfully supplies to or procures for any person anything whatever, knowing that it is intended to be unlawfully used to procure the miscarriage of a woman whether she is with or is not with child, is guilty of felony and is liable to imprisonment for three years.
Chapter 21 (Offences connected with murder or suicide)
Section 228 - Killing an unborn child:
Any person who, when a woman is about to be delivered of a child, prevents the child from being born alive by any act or omission of such a nature that, if the child had been born alive and had then died, he would be deemed to have unlawfully killed the child, is guilty of a felony and is liable to imprisonment for life.
Chapter 22 (Offences endangering Life and Health)
Section 240 - Surgical Operation:
A person is not criminally responsible for performing in good faith and with reasonable care and skill a surgical operation upon any person for his benefit, or upon an unborn child for the preservation of the mother's life, if the performance of the operation is reasonable, having regard to the patient's state at the time and to all the circumstances of the case.
Chris
ReplyDeleteLet me be honest today and tell you that I had started reading the constitution and left it after reading the first five pages. What I mean is that I've got no idea about this constitution yet the document stares at me daily in the "desktop" of my PC.
Due to the above reason, I have questions not only to you but whoever reads my statement, since answers to my questions will determine whether I'll participate in referendum or not and whether I'll vote "No" or "Yes".
1. My first question is about issues of, "Kenya going back to the people" as people normally phrase it: Providing clauses, please tell me how this, "Kenya going back to the people" is going to be achieved through the clauses in this constitution.
2. Everyone is talking about Moi, Kenyatta e.t.c who have big chunks of land. Providing clauses, please tell me how Moi's property will be reverted back to the people through the government or whichever means, through the clauses in the constitution.
3. We know issues of corruption, land and tribalism have really taken us back in our pursuit for a prosperous Kenya. Providing clauses, please tell me how the new constitution is going to turn these problems around.
4. We all know that bad governance has also been a problem in our pursuit towards a prosperous Kenya. Providing clauses, please tell me how the constitution is going to turn this round.
5. How is the constitution going to address issues of equitable distribution of government resources or national wealth. Provide clauses to back up your answers.
6. What has really made other countries to be prosperous? Their living standards to improve? Is it something that our constitution will also address and is it something that will also make Kenya a prosperous country? Please give me answers providing clauses in the constitution as back up.
I'll rather have a very powerful president who doesn't affect my life at all, while I'm richer than have a weak president while I'm poor.
It's all about life, the reason we are concerned with constitution issues is because we want a good life for ourselves and our descendants. Most Arab countries have dictators, yet the same citizens live a better and contented life than South African blacks who have a weak President from their tribe.
My fear is for all of us to waste time and resources and pass the constitution then 15 years down the line to start behaving like those poor Nyeri youth who have never become richer since Kibaki entered power. What I mean is that 15 years down the line to find ourselves still poorer as before when we didn't have this new constitution.
Once you provide me with the answers to my questions then I know I'll make a sober decision during referendum. If you can't provide me with answers to my questions then I won't waste my time to participate in the referendum.
Chris;
ReplyDeleteRaila is going to be made a Kalenjin elder AGAIN in Eldoret. How many times is this man going to be made a Kalenjin elder or does the eldership expire such that his eldership of 2007 expired when he querreled with Ruto and has to renew it?
Philip wrote,
ReplyDelete2. Everyone is talking about Moi, Kenyatta e.t.c who have big chunks of land. Providing clauses, please tell me how Moi's property will be reverted back to the people through the government or whichever means, through the clauses in the constitution.
3. We know issues of corruption, land and tribalism have really taken us back in our pursuit for a prosperous Kenya. Providing clauses, please tell me how the new constitution is going to turn these problems around.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
We have drafted a small piece on how the Draft attempts to "retake" land. It is forthcoming.
We are extremely negative on this aspect. In other words, we cannot make a constitution to get Moi. That is naive and very dangerous. We shall give historical examples of this folly.
About corruption and wealth creation, as we have stated before, nothing will happen.
Wealth creation begins with social organisation, which constitute the great building stones at the bottom of the pyramid. We do not believe that, this Draft has provided the means to re-organise our social fabric to allow creation of wealth.
The truth is this, societies must be organised or reorganised so as to allow wealth creation to take place.
Sample this:
When the West industrialised, they built societies that are dominated by HIGH ENERGY FLOWS. When we got independence, we copied this model.
The only problem is this. We do not have such abundance of energy as the West since the West has the monopoly of energy which it enforces with the powerful military.
Just take a look around African coasts as we speak (many are unaware of this). Africa is now surrounded by Western, Russian, and Asian war ships.
The propaganda will tell u pirates, terrorists blah blah. It is a lie. They are protecting energy flows to their economies while denying us the same.
How can a whole continent be surrounded by foreign war ships and yet we have no single boat that we can call ours in these waters? It is scandalous to say the least for we are behaving like Esau.
Since we do not have energy, we have to re-organise our nations to reflect these awful realities. But, we seem not to know what we are doing. We are on a Titanic.
Are you damn fools saying no to this draft telling me it's WORSE than the current mess we have? Get a grip!
ReplyDeleteWe fools are saying your life will not change on the passing of the document.
ReplyDeleteBlogger Chris said......"Draft to Pass if Kibaki Approves"
ReplyDeleteChris. Whereas I agree with most of what you write in your post, I certainly do not agree with the heading you have at the top. Kibaki has already stoof in parliament and supported that draft. These are records which are kept in HANSARD.
For starters, please tell akina Jirongo and akina Ruto, even if they CRY and throw tantrums that the review amended to allow the draft to be returned to the parliament, it will NOT stop the referendum and it will not stop Kenyans voting for it by up to 75%!!!
I keep telling you guys here. ODM did not get what it wanted. It's key constituencies of Rift Valley and Coast were denied majimbo/ugatuzi. The party preferred a parliamentary system of government. It got none of these. This does not mean it will not support the draft. It is indeed far much better than what we have, and given vote-stealing habits and reform-phobia of Kenyans, it is not guaranteed that if AGENDA4 fails, if the next government will revive it.
And for you Chris, even if Kibaki, Kalonzo plus their wives and partisan churches decided to support NO, I am telling you without fear of contradiction that the constitution is a done deal. It is passing by a very high margin, more than 70% if CoE conducts proper civic education and extends the voter registration exercise to capture up to 8 million voters who may be left out because Finance Minister Uhuru Kenyatta has under funded IIEC in a quiet start of 2012 rigging!!!
Vintage Chris is back, karibu sana. Please post something this weekend on "weekend special" section (but not about Tom Mboya!)
ReplyDeleteI have friends in the Media who have told me that a lot of money has been given to top reporters and editors to create the impression that over 75% support this constitution while this is not the case.
ReplyDeleteIt is obvious that the media, especially KTN is biased, and the fake polls are meant to attempt to sway the mood.
Their direct attack on the Church is rather obvious. For example, why would they bring Rev. Njoya (a discredited man of the collar, whose sanity is often questioned) to attack the same church that he is supposed to be representing. He even had the audacity to say that "We are all Muslims by default...even all Christians are Muslims"...are those the words of a sane person???
This constitution will definitely fail if the contentious issues are not addressed...mark my words...
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteAre you damn fools saying no to this draft telling me it's WORSE than the current mess we have? Get a grip!
4/9/10 1:55 AM
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Let us see who has a grip.
In the 1st Industrial Revolution, ENERGY became the basic building block underlying wealth.
In the 3rd Industrial Revolution, knowledge has become very crucial.
Now, as we noted before, the Western industrial system is built to be sustained by high energy flows. We copied that model. But, do we have such energy flows in our society? No.
Today, knowledge is crucial. Yes, we know that, knowledge is power and wealth. But, thats a half truth. The truth is that, ORGANISED KNOWLEDGE is power and wealth. Do we look like we know how to organise knowledge?
In the creation of wealth, one must create disequilibrium, i.e. imperfect market. There are three ways of doing this:
(a) Sociological disequilibrium.
(b) Developmental disequilibrium, and
(c) technological disequilibrium.
To change Kenyans/African societies, all of the above issues must be addressed.
The question infront of you is this, to what extent, will the new katiba address or help the nation address these issues?
For instance, what does the Draft say about intellectual property?
Chris,
ReplyDeleteOn this commentor, Nimesema (the real one)4/8/10 6:12 PM,
I just want to tell you that if your long long friends walked right through your door and met you and the first thing you tell them is I am a real man, they'll start questionning that statement.
Nimesema
Hello Phil,
ReplyDeleteIt is a very long time since we were in total agreement on something. But I agree with you totally this time. TOTALLY!! In fact the draft will get more than 75% overwheleming support. The percentage will hinge on the voter registration.
I even agree with you about the heading to this post being wrong. It is NOT mine. One of our administrators has this nasty habit of changing my headlines every time I post something these days. I am yet to find out who does this although I have my suspicions. Whoever you are STOP!!
BTW Phil, did u c my email ama u just decided to lenga me?
-Kumekucha-
BTW this was my original headline before it was changed;
ReplyDeleteKutakucha: Draft constitution will sail through referendum, survey reveals
-Kumekucha
I'm still waiting for my answer.
ReplyDeletePhilip.
Ruto in a mess for trusting Kkk in naivasha,KIA and bunge. Report in stndrd on role of AP puts the commander in chief in a vulnerable position re ICC. Now uhuru supports his uncle . These are the three major players for Ocampo. Only Ruto misses what the other TWO must do to appease Ocampo!
ReplyDeleteThe urban poor women, the rural women and the landless women (the homeless and internally displaced women) are they ones who are going to pay the high price in the long run as opposed those women of independent means, the country's educated elite and the 0.3 who are very very affluent.
ReplyDelete"We have not received any funding this time nor any communique from our counterparts in Northern Europe. Hence I don't see why we should waste our energies worrying whether the draft will be passed or not. We have decided to let it be passed as is and in the manner they have crafted it then counter it through various ways known to us with the help from our dear friends in Northern Europe. Patience and vigilance is key to getting our real say in 2012." - Spoken by an elite Kenyan woman in a conference with her colleagues.
My interest over the detailed issues of constitution is climbing up after a long hibernation that started in 2005 after referendum.
ReplyDeleteI still repeat that I've never read the proposed constitution and all the time I used to read the newspaper that's the part that I used not to read. I've come to know vague details of the constitution through arguements/posts in Kumekucha and from it's participants.
Yesterday, for the first time, I read something in Nation newspaper concerning Ole Kaparo being against constitution citing specifically issues of land: That freehold will be removed and all land will be leasehold.
If for sure this is what the constitution entails, then, contrary to Ole Kaparo claims, I'll supoort this clause. I AM, I HAVE BEEN AND I'LL ALWAYS BE AGAINST FREEHOLD OWNERSHIP OF LAND.
There was a time someone was telling me, I haven't verified though, that Martha Karua was in a conference with them and the iron lady was vehemently complaining about freehold ownership of land, which has been allowed even to FOREIGNERS! Even if this is not allowed to foreigners, what can stop a foreigner from entering a deal with a local and owning such land? Even leaving foreigners aside, then of what use will it be for a country which doesn't own land because some few individuals have bought nearly all the land in the country and the land will belong to them for 999 years?
Freehold is where one get ownership of land for 999 years, in other words is like owning land forever. Imagine if foreigners were to own over 30% of Kenyan land under freehold, then what will we have as a country. A country resides on land and without land then there is no country, and that's why we don't have any country in the ocean, and whenever a country want part of the ocean it has to reclaim it, which is creating land on the ocean. I'm using a layman language which I hope you all understand.
I have a feeling that all big landowners and MPs might be against the constitution because of this clause of land. Maybe someone should tell me, providing this clause, how it works.
Thank you Chris. Very Good. Very. On another note, Kibaki, Kalonzo, Uhuru na Ruto walikula nini ya Phil? Tho! Kibera psychology.
ReplyDeleteTitanic ya didimia baba!
Deroo,
ReplyDeleteRAO alikula nini yako ama ya baba yako? Kweli nyani haoni kundule, SHAME.