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Thursday, April 08, 2010

Draft: Divisive Church Aborting her Credibility

The Kenyan church is spoiling for a grandd fight. While the bible remains the ultimate constitution among Christians, it beggars belief what the so-called Kenyan church is upto with her opposition to the draft constitution. The church’s moral fibre is in tatters going by 2005 referendum and the bungled 2007 elections. You do not need a constitution to fight sin/s.

The Njue-Karanja axis of spiritual deceit is destined for a lose-lose Waterloo. Scuttling the review process will only lead to the mother of all PEV come 2012 (courtesy of the current constitution). No prizes for who will take the exclusive blame. Njoya has already warned them on loosing the residual credibility they begged Kenyans in forgiveness after near-Armageddon 2007 violence.

Both Njue and Karanja miss the boat by a whole river when they refuse to acknowledge the fact that it is the flock who makes the church and not the other way round. These two entrepreneurs better stop digging while seated at the bottom of the moral pit. The present religious brinkmanship leaves you asking where is justice when the church fails to protect the minority (Muslims) but instead seek the me-too cheap route to self righteousness.

Put differently what do you do when a person starts offering you advice to improve on something without being specific or giving you any specific ideas? They simply tell you that this is wrong and that “they don’t like it.” Do you ignore all the other readers you have and change the blog to suit the personal preferences of this single person and his minority supporters? Or do you just ignore them?

This is the situation that I have found myself in, in recent times and the similarities this personal situation has with the position of the churches in Kenya where the draft constitution is concerned are very similar.

Let me start with the personal drama. Those who have been with Kumekucha for a long time will know that I have an open mind and am very eager to listen to constructive criticism about the blog and especially ideas on improvement. However recently I have found myself in a very difficult situation from a person and indeed people whom I respect who have chosen to criticize for the sake of criticizing. I have taken time from a very busy schedule to answer the criticisms that have reached me via email and to the best of my ability I have explained my position and the vision that I had when I was launching Kumekucha 5 odd years ago.

Now a member of “this group” or somebody sympathetic with them left an anonymous comment a few hours ago in our latest advertising section informing me that the new advertising section will make Kumekucha lose readers and can even get the blog into trouble with our hosts blogger.com over violations of users terms of service. When I saw this comment and knowing what I do, I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.

The facts are that our new advertising section has gained us new readers and has also proved to be very useful to many Kenyans out there, some of whom were trying to advertise in the comments section prior to our launching Kumekucha classifieds. It is free and therefore a service that I am sure will grow to be valuable with time. The blogger rules have nothing against bloggers selling advertising on their blogs (especially if the ads are not an excuse to link to other sites, and that’s why we DO NOT allow links). Indeed Kumekucha has been carrying advertising on a regular basis for a long time now from a blogger sister service called Adsense and one other unrelated affiliate advertising program. What blogger is against are links aimed at enhancing traffic and Google ranking of another site. They also discourage selling links to other sites and pretending that they are natural links. Another closely related no no is turning a blog into a spam blog.

If anybody doubts what I am saying they can read THIS from the blogger help forum.

What I would really like to know are the real motives driving the behaviour of this human being. People never do things for no reason.

Spiritual promiscuity
But having said that let me tell you a story that applies both to the church in Kenya and my good friend and his supporters.

Once upon a time in some African village there were two brothers. One brother did very well in his exams and ended up becoming a medical doctor. The other did terribly but was gifted in carpentry and so ended up being a village carpenter.

One day a snake entered their parents’ house during the Christmas holidays when both brothers were home with their families. The carpenter rushed and brought out a big Rungu (club) that he had crafted in his woodworking workshop. The doctor could hear nothing of it. He reminded everybody that he was the most educated person in that homestead and therefore the family had no alternative but to make use of his “excessive” brains. Without being specific, he suggested that they use a more scientific method to deal with the snake. While they were arguing they heard the doctor’s 2 year old baby screaming very loudly from one of the rooms in the house. They rushed in only to find that the snake had bitten the youngster. The good doctor knew that the snake was very poisonous and he had only about 10 minutes to do something or his only son would die. It would take hours to get to the nearest district hospital. And so he froze in panic and couldn’t move an inch.

The uneducated carpenter brother was more quick-thinking and used his club to kill the snake. He then tied the child with a cloth above the snake wound and rushed the baby to a nearby dispensary (on foot) where they had an antidote for the dangerous snake because it was fairly common in the area (information which the doctor did not have).

The moral of the story is that the common enemy almost defeated the two brothers and rather tragically too, all because one of them felt superior to the other.

Quite a number of church leaders have made their intentions known early that they will urge their flock to reject the draft constitution. The reason is that the constitution has failed to meet their expectations. Meaning that all the other groups (whose expectations were not met) should also reject the document.

In all this the church has failed once again to take a leadership position that is expected from it and at the very least suggest some compromise. They have not until this 11th hour when they have loudly started protesting even before the civic education program has been launched.

Now let us for a minute imagine a situation where all the demands of the church were met to the letter. It would mean that another group would be greatly disgruntled and so we would be back to square one with another group strongly against the document. In short we would never hope to get a new constitution in 100 years.

The church leaders should try and hear themselves talk because the first thing they would notice is that they sound very ridiculous. The current constitution which the vast majority agrees is terrible has Khadi courts and the much better draft constitution which will help the people of Kenya take back their country also has the Kadhi’s courts. So which one should Kenyans go for? The bad constitution with kadhi’s courts or the new constitution that gives Kenyans a fighting chance but also has Kadhi courts? You tell me.

To be very blunt I think the church has totally lost it. We saw the church take sides during the 2007 elections which led to serious blood shed in Kenya. One prominent church organization in Kenya openly supported PNU while most evangelical churches openly sang the praises of ODM. In retrospect the people who came out wisest were the Muslims. Wasn’t it funny the way both Raila and Kibaki kept on rushing to mosques? The Muslims accepted both with open arms but NEVER took sides. Actually they played both sides into thinking they were fully with them.

Me thinks that the church is making a big mistake. In trying to flex their political muscles I predict that they will be defeated and Kenyans will vote YES for the draft constitution. Have they thought of the kind of damage that will do to the church?

The wise thing to do is to let the people decide and remain silent if they have run out of ideas. In fact the church should be busy on the ground helping to heal the wounds they helped create in 2007. Not playing politics with a document that will be the first step towards a new Kenya. Besides the thing is not written in stone. Church leaders can move the changes they want later (which will be a lot easier than getting changes with the current constitution).

As it is the church leaders are sounding very much like the Pharisees during the days when Jesus walked the earth.

Well folks I have reported my position early I am going to vote YES for the new constitution. What about you?

Kumekucha classifieds: Looking for air-conditioning services while in Nairobi?

105 comments:

Anonymous said...

Chris note that there is an islamic agenda for africa and kenya that will pass thru the constituion. in the current constiution, kadhi courts operate in the 10 miles strip region along the coast,but in the new draft they r all over the country. -do we also have hindu,christian etc courts inserted?

Anonymous said...

Challenging the diaspora; Actions not words:

Kumekucha, please arrange for diasporians who support the draft to "CONTRIBUTE" towards civic education to Kenyan voters

This draft must go through.
Ordinary Kenyans must be told the truth and not what the churches are saying.

The "Kikuyu church leaders" must be stopped
Churches want vote on Kenya draft postponed

see their shallow arguements at
http://www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Churches%20want%20vote%20on%20Kenya%20draft%20postponed/-/1064/894966/-/14olpmez/-/index.html

Mwarang'ethe said...

Well folks I have reported my position early I am going to vote YES for the new constitution. What about you?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Mwarang'ethe says NO. He says no because, when he reads the Draft, he sees there will be no change.

We are not worried about abortion and such. These are diversionary tricks by the churches to keep us discussing useless issues.

Some will argue this is being a perfectionist. In the fullness of time, we shall know the truth. We shall give three quotes and those wise enough will understand.

Benjamin Disraeli, who was a Prime Minister of England wrote this:

"He (a certain banker) is the lord and master of the money markets of the world, and of course virtually lord and master of everything else."

He then added this:

"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes."

William Gladstone, Prime Minister of England stated in 1852 that:

"From the time I took office as Chancellor of the Exchequer, I began to learn that the State held, in the face of the Bank and the City, an essentially false position as to finance. The Government itself was not to be a substantive power, but was to leave the Money Power supreme and unquestioned."

Prime Minister William Pitt said that:

"A long train of these practices has at length unwillingly convinced me that there is something behind the throne greater than the King himself."

Like these men, we see something greater than the president, parliament and the senate we have created.

This something which has been the problem is well sitted in this Draft and is just laughing at our merry go round.

Chris said...

Anon @ 1:10 PM

Thank you for your very informed comment. I have studied the Islamic agenda not only in Africa but in Europe as well and I am convinced that it is REAL. Wait and see what happens in Europe in the next 5 years!

However in the Kenyan situation I am persuaded that the old constitution is a much better tool and facilitator for the agenda. Look at what has already happen?

The new constitution will be a much better weapon to prevent any religion dominating. If I was a Muslim I would gladly support the stand of the Church currrently knowing very well that if we go back to the old constitution, Muslims have already mastered all the techniques to use it to reach their goals much quicker.

That is the grim reality on the ground.

-Kumekucha-

Mwarang'ethe said...

Chris said...
Anon @ 1:10 PM

Thank you for your very informed comment. I have studied the Islamic agenda not only in Africa but in Europe as well and I am convinced that it is REAL. Wait and see what happens in Europe in the next 5 years!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Interesting. Would you mind shedding more light on what u have discovered?

More so, can u give us appropriate references please?

Sam Ochols said...

Has anyone noticed how Judas Kaloozer VP & leader of Punda (PDP) is dithering on Constitutional issue? This guy is a certified opportunist; He is cornered coz with the enactment of the draft, the windows are closing on him to benefit from chaotic status-quo arrangement.The passing of a new Constitution will shun opportunism that Kalonzo thrives and eat on. The Punda/KKK mongreals have suddenly discovered that the pedegree for 2012 is High & complicated even in their own game plan of a Presidential system. The transition clause Cushions the current PM Raila Odinga from their (punda/pnu) malice. It ensures his approval & that of parliament in ALL subsequent major appointments in he lead up to 2012. This inturn safeguards the integrity of major office holders as the country approaches 2012 ie Kibaki succession. This is no music to Kalonzo Musyoka & co. William Ruto & his "ODM maize faction" are equally cornered in their Rift Valley backyard. There is a backclash over their betrayal in Naivasha that handed Mt Kenya wing of KKK an upper hand rid-off 3-tier govt that would have reflected the regions Majimbo aspirations. Meanwhile Gideon Moi wing is causing another sleepless nights to Ruto's false monopoly of Kalenjin destiny. One could have noticed the desperation of William with Kalonzo asking the two principals to open the draft for renegotiation. They want to blame Raila for their own woes. They're two scared to come out and say "NO" to the draft. To say YES is to prepare their own rope for eventual political hanging. At the moment they prefer to hide behind Panua Cardinal Njue & the NCCK ethnic Provost Rev Karanja. These two clerics speak nonsense and must be shun.Let Kenyans be warned abortion & Kadhi courts is just smoking gun for retrogressive elements that feel threatened by the new Katiba. Lets say YES & may those opposed find solace in eternal hell. Katiba sasa.

Anonymous said...

Chris;

Your argument is an exercise in dishonesty. The churches are raising one of the most fundamental issues in constitution making, namely, the separation of the Religion from the State. It is either we accept that Kenya is a secular state or allow all religions to have the ability to set-up their courts similar to those being allowed for the muslim faith. The fact that the Kadhis courts are in the current constitution is not an excuse to maintain them. Their presence in the current constitution is one of the reasons that makes it a bad constitution. Period.

No faith should be accorded a place in a constitution of a secular state. It is nonsensical to say that muslim is a minority faith and therefore ... blah ... blah. There are other minority faiths and they are not in the constitution.

After we are done with tribal wars we will enter into religious wars if we entertain faiths in our constitution. Mark my words.

Anonymous said...

is it possible to allow the kadhi's court to continue operating as they have done since the day kenya got uhuru without enshrining the same into the constitution?

and what's the big deal if the kadhi's court are allowed to be enshrined in the new constitution?

kadhi's court are for muslims and muslims alone and i don't see any reason why some christian clergy are worried sick about it.

the christian clergy should forget it because they are not a united front but belong to million denominations of christianity and they have always taken care of their legal church business as well as private legal issues through the civil and criminal courts.

it's only the catholic church which seems to have some type of an ancient court system based on roman law. i guess it's known as a tribunal court or something of that nature.

the business of the tribunals are only limited to marital cases and other minor issues that affect catholics and catholics alone, those who are willing to appear before them for whatever reasons.

so, one wonders why are some of the well known pharisaical clergy are so adamantly opposed to having the kadhi's court retained in the new constitution?

why has it become an issue after four decades? why now? why?

with regard to the issue of abortion, i hope the constitution will also stipulate that biological fathers who abandon their children or fail to pay child support should be prosecuted and sent to jail.

i am sure so many of the clergy crying out loud will be very happy about the child support issue since many of them have neglected their illegitimate children.

if they still want to press for the separation of "church" and state, then it will translate into kenya being a secular state where obortion would become a woman's basic right and rightly so.

the clergy or men of the cloth should allow the women to vote on issue and decide what they really want to do with their reproductive rights as kenyan women.

Anonymous said...

Kenyans know the weaknesses and heavily closeted skeletons of 90% of those who call themselves ordained ministers.

They are bound to become fair game if they continue to meddle in the affairs of the country getting a new constitution.

The Kenyan public has been very patient, understanding, forgiving and has always turned a blind eye on numerous occasions, but there may come a time when the goodwill may cease to exist.

luke said...

Chris,
not many months ago i told the readership of this blog that you were laughing all the way to the bank with adsense while all they did/continue to do was rush to KK to read posts and angrily leave comments in the name of their defending their beloved warlords. now they can see i was right and good for you

Forget about "uhuru na kazi" or "harambee" or "working nation" dead and empty meaningless and useless slogans! in Kenya today it is YOUR FAULT if you are poor, thats why crime is on the rise and it will not stop until the root cause of inequality is addressed.

nowadays its SIASA na PESA.anyone who does not follow that maxim or live by that mantra is only fooling themselves walking alone. Likewise the church lost the moral and ethical authority to act on behalf of its followers when they took sides in 2005 and 2007. Thats not to say they are not right about Kadhi courts and Abortion-they have a right to their opinions

they should focus their efforts on wooing their followers back into the sheepfold. as of now, they are like a clanging symbol producing an empty noise with no distinct sound

Anonymous said...

The churches know that the kadhi's court does not affect them and kenyans whatsoever. What they are doing is to provoke the Muslim and creat hate which Kenya has no capacity to deal with.
If any constitution is passed without the kadhi's court then Kenya will never be the same again.

Anonymous said...

Well put 4/7/10 9:26 PM

Double speak of separation of church and state is the undoing of the church. It boils down to a choice between accepting Kadhis or accepting free abortion.

If the church - and by that I mean the clergy in Rome, becouse the Kenya ones just receive and implement papal directives - want to have thier beliefs in our contitution then the other beliefs have a right to be there. And if they do not want kadhi courts then why should they hijack the constitution with thier beliefs.

The catholic church should first deal with the child abuse thats rampant in it today as we speak, the cases in AFRICA are even bigger than the ones in EUROPE, We need to encourage these molested souls to come forward. Once this starts happening in Kenya , the magnitude of the abuse will be quite shocking.

The church has no credibility whatsoever as its not a democratic institution and its not been honest to its flock , why should we include outdated old directives from ROME that were designed to increase the population of the CRUSADERS.

You cannot have your cake and eat it.

Anonymous said...

Well put 4/7/10 9:26 PM

Double speak of separation of church and state is the undoing of the church. It boils down to a choice between accepting Kadhis or accepting free abortion.

If the church - and by that I mean the clergy in Rome, becouse the Kenya ones just receive and implement papal directives - want to have thier beliefs in our contitution then the other beliefs have a right to be there. And if they do not want kadhi courts then why should they hijack the constitution with thier beliefs.

The catholic church should first deal with the child abuse thats rampant in it today as we speak, the cases in AFRICA are even bigger than the ones in EUROPE, We need to encourage these molested souls to come forward. Once this starts happening in Kenya , the magnitude of the abuse will be quite shocking.

The church has no credibility whatsoever as its not a democratic institution and its not been honest to its flock , why should we include outdated old directives from ROME that were designed to increase the population of the CRUSADERS.

You cannot have your cake and eat it.

Joe said...

Is the church admitting failure in preaching righteousness to its flock? If the church was as good as it wants us to think, we wouldn't need the abortion clause in the constitution. I put it to the church that the abortion clause is there to mitigate their failure! It is within the church's power to prevent abortions - by preaching to their flock and taming their wayward officials.

Anonymous said...

I can't believe ODM is cheering on this PNU draft constitution.

ODM promised majimbo to the people of Coast, Rift Valley, and North Eastern and now we don't have majimbo.

ODM promised parliamentary democracy to the people of Kenya and now we have an imperial presidency.

My question is why did ODM decide to betray its voters and Kenyans as a whole. WHY IS RAILA CAMPAIGNING FOR THIS THING, JUST TO GET MT. KENYA VOTES?

Raila is the greatest political betrayer in the history of Kenya and I regret having supported him in the last elections.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 1:21 PM

Your statement
"The "Kikuyu church leaders" must be stopped"
Churches want vote on Kenya draft postponed,
is foolishness utter nonsense!!

You are a pseudo democrat you ought to be discussing the merits and the demerits of the church's position, not their ethnicity, democracy is about freely making choices!

shaka said...

I will support this constitution.This is beacause it is better than the current one in many areas except the pure presidential system.
We have given the mt Kenya presidency for life.They will always determine who becomes the president.The idea of losing candidates going home could breed rebels.I may be wrong.

I'm very disappointed with Ruto for having misled Kenyans in Naivasha into accepting a powerful presidency just to settle scores with Raila.Kenya is what it is today because of the imperial presidency.Kenyans fought in 2007 due to a winner take it all presidency.The new constitution does not adress this.Kenyans will fight again after 2012.You can take this to the bank.I will support this constitution also because we need to move on to other development issues.We have hussled to get a new constitution for two decades and everything else seems to be stagnating due to our inability to enact a new constitution.With the new constitution we will get issue oriented leaders as opposed to the current leaders who rose to fame due to their mageuzi activism.

As for the Kadhis courts the clergy are not sincere.It is a lose lose situation for them.The kadhis courts is in the current constitution and in the new draft.Whatever the case the Kadhis court is here to stay!I suspect the clergy could be spokemen for the land barrons in Kenya.The catholic church is a beneficiary of large tracts of land in Kenya and suspect they will lose some of it.

Anonymous said...

The name of Njue is associated with tribalism and shielding rapists in the church.

When Kenya was burning, he never had guts to open his mouth against the vote thieves. He supported them.

When a school girl was raped in a Nyeri church, he protected the rapist.

Has Njue the morality to criticize abortion law?

Anonymous said...

What amazes me is all this bickering at the 90 th Minute of a champions league game!

Guys

The road map is Clear. There is no other window for amendments e.t.c.
The draft is with the AG.
I don't see any legal window of retraction.

So.

I want to urge all those who are for the YES side, to take part in the aggressive marketing of this Document .

We Kenyans like barking alot, but if we can't have everybody on one side, that should not be the end of the world.
We should just get into the ring and sort it out there!

Period.

A wise Orkoiyot

Anonymous said...

Chris and all,

Some matters are understandably serious it saddens many how casually they're referred to. I told someone yesterday that Christianity by conviction, and not by association, birth, marriage, belonging etc., enables one to go beyond general sins of omissions and commissions. A Christian have got to have an inner discernment and deep understanding of issues affecting the overall ways of humankind including that of governance. The clergy are answerable to God who holds or will hold them accountable on how they guide people on these. They are at the same time being held responsible by people who are their flocks and some who are not their flocks for the same.

Take an example of the post-election violence, almost everyone including non-Christians held the ‘church’ and the ‘clergy’ responsible for what they did and/or did not do. The church and the clergy took it in their strides and vowed never to sit back and let that which they are convinced have the potential to explode to go unchallenged. It is therefore uncalled for to tell them to shut up or to ask that they be ignored. The clergy may be speaking for everyone; it is everyone who may have chosen not to listen.


Read below:


Constitution Must Treat All Religions Equally
A Commentary by Pete Ondeng and Peter Waiyaki

The public discourse on whether or not the Kadhi Courts should be included in the constitution has been wrongly interpreted by many to be a Christian vs Muslim affair. The often uninformed rhetoric by hard liners on both sides of the argument adds an unnecessary and potentially explosive element to the already charged political atmosphere.

The issue here is not about religion, but about the constitution. The move to change the current constitution springs from an acknowledgement by most people that there are wrongs in the document that need to be made right. There are some basic rights, for instance, that the original constitution did not address, and which need to be enshrined in the new document.

Anonymous said...

Pete & Waiyaki write-up continues:



Similarly, there were some provisions that were included by those who negotiated the Lancaster House document that no longer hold water and need to be scrapped.
The Parliamentary Select Committee (PSC) retreat in Naivasha, which was expected by many to degenerate into an ODM vs PNU muscle-flexing contest, pleasantly surprised the nation by reaching consensus on almost all of the so-called contentious issues.

In regard to the Kadhi Courts, however, the PSC missed the point and actually went astray. Curiously, the draft constitution that emerged from that retreat omitted a simple but critical phrase that had appeared in all the many draft constitutions that have been produced since the first one in 2002. All previous versions of the Draft Constitution have consistently stated categorically that “State and religion will be separate, there will be no state religion and that all religions will be treated equally.

These provisions have now been removed, leaving only that There Will Be No State Religion. Most people are not aware that this small but significant change was made in Naivasha. Why was this phrase removed, and what would be the significance of its absence in the constitution? The only logical conclusion would be that the new constitution does not acknowledge all religions as equal.

The Constitution enunciates equality for all citizens. Further it provides that nobody shall be discriminated against by reason of their religion, among other things. Unfortunately, the Kadhi courts are themselves an institutionalization of inequality. They seek to favour one religion over others by creating and protecting and providing for state funding of a purely religious system of dispute resolution.
One of the central arguments from those who advocate for Kadhi courts to be included in the constitution is that the courts have been in the constitution since independence. This is very true. The courts did not accidentally end up in the constitution but were a part of the negotiations between Jomo Kenyatta and the Sultan of Zanzibar which led to the 10 mile coastal strip being incorporated into the Republic of Kenya at independence.

However, these historical reasons and context no longer apply. What was then a
concession to a small part of the country and a very small part of the population has now become a demand and a right applicable to the whole country
Excluding the Kadhi courts from the new constitution would not in any way hinder the rights of Muslims to worship Allah or to establish courts and other mechanism of dispute resolution. The role of the Kadhi as a religious office will remain intact, organized and funded by the Muslim community, in the same way as other religions will be required to fund their own activities.

The only effect of not including the courts in the constitution would be that, like for all other religions, there would be no funding using tax payers money, and the offices for Kadhis would be recognized rightly as religious offices, and not government office. Most importantly, the draft constitution that will soon be presented to Kenyans for a referendum must include the important clause removed by the PSC: that all religions will be treated equally.

Pete Ondeng is a development economist & author of Africa’s Moment; Peter Waiyaki is an
advocate of the High Court of Kenya

Mwarang'ethe said...

Sorry for a bit diversion from the real subject. Jana, we wrote this on this blog:

"shares jumped by 7 pence because of oil which is STILL UNDER THE AFRICAN SOIL, how much money does such a foreigner make?

What did the Ugandan get? We answer ZERO. What will he get? We answer, may be bloodshed."

Now, this is the latest on this saga which has direct implications on Kenya.

"Uganda dismisses case seeking oil deals disclosure."

A Ugandan court on Wednesday dismissed a case filed by two Ugandan journalists in 2007 to try and force the government to disclose details of oil Production Sharing Agreements (PSAs) it has signed with explorers.

"Government business doesn't have to be necessarily in the public domain... The applicants have not demonstrated that public interest in this case overrides private interest,"

We just add, after the bloodshed, ICC will be on the way.

Source @ http://in.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idINLDE61227W20100203?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true

Anonymous said...

Breaking News!!!!!!!!!!

The University Staff strike is called off after Raila's "intervention."
It has become routine for Raila to instigate strikes and then to "intervene" the last minute and "resolve" them. Remember the matatu strike a while ago!?
Raila thinks that Kenyans are so stupid they cannot see his hand in these so called strikes. As we approach 2012 elections, we are sure to witness more of these staged strikes and staged resolutions by Attention-Hungry Raila.

Anonymous said...

He he he he .... what happened to project Wamalwa ama amelala ?

Anonymous said...

Raila Again .... yawa

"It has become routine for Raila to instigate strikes and then to "intervene" the last minute and "resolve" them. Remember the matatu strike a while ago!? "

This Raila must be very powerfull and intelligent that he can even play around with folks at the university. A lot of people must surely believe in him.

Anonymous said...

Having said that lets continue with child abuse in the church.

Anonymous said...

Hi Kenyans including Chris,

I think the Kadhi courts is not really a serious issue. There two clauses under the chapter on citizenship that go like this:

14(4) "A child found in Kenya who is, or appears to be, less than eight years of age, and whose nationality and parents are not known, is presumed to be a citizen by birth"

15(2) "A person who has been lawfully resident in Kenya for a continuous period
of at least seven years, and who satisfies the conditions prescribed by an Act of Parliament, may apply to be registered as a citizen"

Now lets look closely at the first clause. Previously there has been no contention about who is a Kenyan citizen. So why was this clause which previously was not there included? Who are the people who have been complaining about citizenship? Who are these children being referred in this clause? Kenya hosts the largest refugee population in the world. Kenya is the home of many homeless in this region. most refugees are women and children and of these two about 80% are children. Now, approximately 80% of refugees in Kenya are of Somali origin.

I take you back a few months ago. Why was Kenya’s population census withheld? Census results were withheld after it emerged that the Somali population in Kenya had apparently grown from about 900,000 persons to 2,200,000 persons since 1999, a massive 140%. These numbers were mostly in North Eastern Province. Where had all these people come from? Were they Kenyan citizens?

Now I take you to the events after the Jamia Mosque riots. There were many Somalis who were subsequently arraigned in court on suspicion of being in Kenya illegally. Most of these were very rich individuals running legitimate businesses in Nairobi but were, none the less, NOT Kenyan citizens. This is the biggest stumbling blocks to the Somali immigrants in Kenya. How do they plan to solve this problem? Now that they have money, own property, and have the numbers, how do these people plan to become citizens? Citizenship is the only remaining nail that will give them legitimacy and political authority in this country. Many will start to argue, but the clause states that these will be children whose “nationality and parents are unknown” I ask you this, If I took a child (of Somali origin) who is ‘about’ 8 years old to the immigration department and claim to have found them in some street, how will they establish his/her nationality and parents? There are Kenyan Somalis and this is where the loophole is. another may say “but these are only children and will take 10 years before they are able to exercise political control” Well, I will ask you this, what is 10 years for people who have been at war for 20 years without any end in sight? Don’t they want a better future for their children?
Now I will ask Kenyans, where is Kenya’s biggest security threat? Is it Tanzania? Uganda? South Sudan? Ethiopia? Or Somalia? Everyday Al Shabaab/ Al Qaeda are increasingly becoming a threat as religious fanaticism grows. A recent demonstration that they are alive and well in Kenya were the Jamia riots due to Jamaican cleric Al Faizal. Kenyans, do you want to exacerbate this threat to your children?
We are now going majimbo and each region will have some political and economic ‘autonomy’. This is the opportunity immigrants are looking at. Who will question them in their counties? Let me remind you that very recently there was a discovery of "very high concentrations of natural gas" by a Chinese firm doing exploration in northern Kenya that has raised hopes that Kenya could soon strike oil. High concentrations of gas normally indicate the presence of oil.

Now, Federalism + Oil + Religious Radicalism = what? DOES NIGERIA COME TO YOUR MIND!

Anonymous said...

Anon, you are right. This clause on citizenship will kill kenya ati "A child found in Kenya who is, or appears to be, less than eight years of age, and whose nationality and parents are not known, is presumed to be a citizen by birth"?.......

Anonymous said...

This clause is not for chokoraas. we know they are ours and no one doubts that. This was a clause incerted by COE after recieveing bribes from al quaeda pirate. NO for this draft is the only solution

Anonymous said...

Why should you guys be busy fighting each others as somali immigrants plan to take over kenya? does this mean anything to you?

Anonymous said...

Anon 5.54 i never thought about it that way but now i agree. where were the MPs when this was being incerted? why hasnt anyone known about this? I will now vote NO!

Anonymous said...

Mwarangethe and chris,

can you look at clause 14 (4) on citizenship as alleged by anon 5.54 and report to kenyans if this is true. I do not have the draft yet but if this is true, then this thing wont pass

Anonymous said...

Can someone please tell us how any child of 8 years found in kenya is automatically a kenyan citizen?

Anonymous said...

Abdulkadir has had the last laugh as kenyans argue about ukabila, somalis plan to control this country since they cannot fix theirs......

Anonymous said...

anon 2:18 AM

... let's continue with child abuse in the church.

How silly and ignorant of you to utter such an evil statement in response to whatever. Shame on you!

Were you aware that there are more pedophiles in the general public than there are in the Catholic church or other Christian churches near you or within your geographic region?

Pedophiles are a resident evil that continues to exist in many homes that may appear normal to outsiders, ignorant individuals like anon 2:18 AM and many others out there.

Chunga maisha, chunga your little children if you have any because pedophiles come in all shapes, sizes, races, nationalities, class, professions, religions and denominations.

Make sure that you talk to your children, maintain open lines of communications and let them understand that you the parent are their first line of defence and a refuge in times of need should any devastating evil incident, God forbid, take place in any way, shape or form.

FYI the pedophilia club of perverts consists of long term members who happen to be your average biological fathers, step-fathers, older brothers, uncles, grandfathers, paternal cousins, maternal coussins, distant male relatives, family friends, neighbours, family associates, co-workers, teachers, physicians, kiosk owners, et al.

And the usual CLERGY aka WOLVES IN OUR MIDST of course.

Ingnorance about pedophilia is no excuse and it can cause untold harm to your young children's lives.

Remember the case involving a Kenyan single mother in the USA who kept her children away from church, boys scouts, public swimming pools, national parks, malls, public schools, public school transport, and away from their biological father, only for the poor kids to fall prey to a devious and perverted former co-worker of their mother. The man, a computer wizard, used to drop by around the woman's house under the pretext of fixing or upgrading the three family computers, and there ware times he would take care of the personal needs of the motherboard.

The law caught up with him when he was found with child pornograph in a sting operation. Unfortunately, that was after four years of abusing the poor little children right under their mother's nose.

WAKE UP.

Anonymous said...

please stop being emotional, it is dangerous for your health

Anonymous said...

Chris, this is not you. Stop posting articles of one miguna miguna crap on this forum and leave the church alone. We shall vote with our conciousness

Horace said...

Many ignorant people are yapping about Kadhi courts without understanding the issues.

Muslims have Kadhi court provisions in their religion, most other religions (at least as far as I know) do not. In the present constitution it states that the Kadhi's courts are to be used to arbitrate CIVIL cases between parties where ALL the parties in the case profess the Muslim faith. I do not see how this provision affects Christians in any way.

Christianity doesn't propose any form of dispute resolution mechanism, and if it did, I would be all for giving it judicial weight. BUT IT DOESN'T. So there is no 'equality' or 'justice' contest here. The church leaders are behaving like a dog sitting in a manger, barking at any cows that try to eat. Kadhis courts do not affect you in any way, just ignore that section and vote yes.

Oh, and there is no 'Islamic Agenda for Africa', any more than there is a 'Christian Agenda for Africa'. Just because Christ told his followers to 'Spread the Gospel to all nations' and Christians are trying to do that, that doesn't mean there is a sinister Christian plot. If the Muslims wish to proselytize in Africa and beyond, as long as they use non-violent means, they are perfectly justified to do so.

Anonymous said...

BTW will the New Constitution allow for Kenyans to have the constitutional right to reclaim their African names and use the same as members of the Christian churches and Muslim mosques in Kenya without fear of discrimination, expulsion, persecution or death?

99.8% of Christian names adopted by (imposed upon) Africans are of European ancestry.

While 100% of Muslim names adopted by (imposed upon) Africans are of Arab ancestry.

How about having a provision, whether it matters to others or not, where those who want or desire to reclaim their ancestral names and use the same on offical documents.

Yes, yes, yes! I am aware that Kenyans like Mutahi Ngunyi, Kabondo wa Kabondo, Bukhala wa Amasimbakois, Omondi woud (spl) Rabura Obare, Wamukoya wa Wanamasaka, Okolipa Okurut, Olubayi Olubayi, Mwangangi Musau, Njuguna wa Kanyoni, Itere wa Matere, Ngoi wa Ngoima, Jua Mwangaza, Tembo Upende, Maisha Khadhara etc having been using their ancestral names for the last fifty years.

But their over thirty million Kenyans out there who have no clue that they have an alternative and at the same time they don't have to use the adopted (imposed) European or Arab names as their frist names on all of their official documents, or when naming their innocent children who have no choice in the process.

And should Christian and Muslim missionaries be allowed to continue dominating religious affairs in Kenya after fifty years of Uhuru? 50 years after Uhuru!

Why are some certain Christian churches and Muslim comminities still importing religious leaders from other countries?

Mr/Ms. New Constitution, what is your opinion with regard to the above mentioned?

Anonymous said...

okay horace. The kadhi courts is not even the issue, let muslims keep them. This is a very shallow issue in the katiba. The real issue is clause 14(4) on citizenship. Why is clause there? Is it for street children? Has there ever been doubt that they are kenyans? No, the problem of street children is not whether or not they are kenyans but the provision of basic needs for them so they can grow up in dignity. This clause was incerted to give the thousand somali refugees citizenship.

Anonymous said...

if you want to change your name, go ahead, no one has stoped you. Raila and kibaki dropped their 'christian' names but they are still christians. What is in a name? there are real issues to discuss

Anonymous said...

anyone who votes for this draft constitution votes for al shabaab in achievement of their goal of annexing kenya. You ignorant kenyans underestimate these somali insurgents. They are very bright

Anonymous said...

Can some1 state wat that clause on citizenship say? If its true i shift to NOO!

Anonymous said...

@Horace,

You are preaching to the choir at Kumekucha.

A.
Listen to Mr. Martin Shikuku's views in an interview with Jeff Koinange on K24, regarding the reasons why the Kadhi courts should remain untouched and left alone to take care of the religious affairs of Kenyan who happen to profess the Islamic faith.

B.
There has always been an 'Islamic Agenda for Africa' and in Africa for centuries. Unfortunately it took an ugly turn in East Africa during the early 1980s.

There has also been a destructive 'Christian Agenda for Africa' and in Africa since the ancient centuries when Vasco da Gama took a restroom break on the shores of eastern African coast.

C.
The agendas boil down to the issues of:

i) Islamization of Africa versus Arabization of Africa.

ii) Christianization of Africa versus Europianization of Africa.

Those two destructive agendas have been going on for centuries and Africa is still suffering from its deep repurcussions as we debate the real worthiness and merits of Kenya's new constitution.

Anonymous said...

Ruto has really gone crazy- against anything that is supported by Raila. This is his most undoing!

I looked at the photo where some MPS lead by Ruto are reported to be rejecting the draft constitution:

1. YK'92 Proper- said it all about the hand of Moi.
Jirongo and Ruto were YK'92
2.Felt sorry for the batch-why didnt they attend pariament last week to effect changes that they now want?

3. Whats wrong with "socialism" as regards those owning but not using over 100,000 acres of land. In this alone, they are against over 90% of the citizens

Can we ask them to stop drama.

By the way, that meeting between "Church leaders" and Government-where did Kaloozer come from.M ethinks he should have been with Ruto's group! What a man without principles!

Did you also note that Saitoti held a brief for Raila in Parliament- what is this all about?

Many might be surprised to realise that given his way, Kifaki's choice is saitoti more than Uhuru who has a date with Ocampo! Can someone correct me on this?

Give the draft for Kenyans to decide

Anonymous said...

The Kadhi courts should be left unchanged as they are in the current constitution. If they change how they are articled then there is reason to cry foul. But we need to protect the rights of minorities and muslims are minorities in Kenya.

Anonymous said...

@ anon 4/8/10 5:54 AM

How many drafts are there? I checked the draft link on the standard and that citizenship clause is in Ch 4 20 (1)

Children found in Kenya and adopted children

20. (1) A child found in Kenya who is or appears to be less than eight years
of age, and whose nationality and parents are not known, is presumed
to be a citizen by birth.

For this reason alone I will reject that constitution!!!!

Egnubo said...

You guys who keep on raving and ranting about the Church and Pedofile stuff. Why dont you do just a bit of research? You will see how this whole thing is unfair.

To start with have a look at this opinion article that was published in the Nation on 2nd April. I copy it below for ease of reading.



Cover-up accusations against the pope are false and unfair

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By LUIS G. FRANCESCHI
Posted Friday, April 2 2010 at 18:11

Pope Benedict has been under attack for allegedly covering up sex scandals while he was the head of one of the most important church offices in the 1990s. Many colleagues, among them quite a number of lawyers, have asked for my opinion.

Usually a lawyer should build strong foundations for his or her arguments, whether they are in favour or against. I took on the task of going deeper into the matter, and I was appalled by what I found.

In a very short span of time, 4,838 negative articles related to the subject have been written by the world’s leading news agencies. In the media world, this happens only when there is a concerted campaign or a clear target.

In the research, I discovered that the campaign did not begin yesterday.

In a similar fashion, the Pope was attacked by unconnected events in 2005 for having been enrolled by force in the Nazi youth; in 2006, when his citation of a Byzantine emperor was taken out of context; in 2008, he was branded homophobic for saying in his annual Christmas message that the distinction between men and women is central to human nature, and this order, set down by creation, should be respected.

IN 2009, ‘THE NEW YORK TIMES’ ACCUSED him of causing confusion in Anglican and Catholic parishes by his decision to make it easier for Anglicans to convert.

Every major accusation was accompanied by satellite-like others. The year 2010 was not spared as a major issue was brewing. The target, as usual, was the Pope, and the subject matter paedophilia.

Before we find out if the Pope covered up paedophilia-related cases, let’s look for a moment at the paedophilic abuses that have brought so much sadness to the church. Consider the following data in Germany — of the 210,000 child abuse cases reported since 1995, only 94 belong to the Catholic Church.

True, 94 cases in parishes and schools are a lot, and this raises very serious questions. More than average is expected from church members, but it is clear that the church consists of weak and sinful men and women, who are shaped by the cultural currents of the time.

As of 2005 there were 406,411 priests in the world. Of these, less than 3,000 were found guilty of some form of molestation. These were not just paedophilic, but also hebephilic (16-17 year-old adolescents) and homosexual attractions.

This means that the beautiful gift a priest is to society has been tarnished by the shameful behaviour of 0.73 per cent of the total number of priests.

The news items conveyed to us lack proportionality. Consider this in relation to the brutal totality of the problem in the US.

No one says, for example, that there were five times more cases of pastors being accused by different Protestant communities, or that in the same period, when 100 priests were condemned, there were 5,000 teachers of gymnastics and sports coaches who suffered the same fate.

Apparently, world reports have lacked objectivity. We should consider the crux of the matter: Did the Pope cover up cases or not?

Charles Scicluna, the head of the abuse reporting office at the Vatican, explains that secrecy during the investigative phase serves to protect the names of all the people involved — first and foremost, the victims themselves, then the accused priests who have the right — as everyone does — to the presumption of innocence until proved guilty.

Anonymous said...

anon 12:24 PM

I can't wait for the day when Kenyans and other Africans will shade the shame and the stigma of not talking about sexual abuse and muster the courage to come forward and talk about what they have been through in the last six decades at the hands of closeted pedophile missionary priests, nuns, foreign lay workers as well as native Kenyan (African) clergy.

Imagine for a second, if the Irish Catholic priests could abuse their own on Irish soil with impunity and without regard, then hell knows what some of them and I repeat some of the perverted missionaries did to innocent Kenyan and African children.

The Irish Church has (already) lost all credibility and the Vatican is going to do so if the man at the helm doesn't come out swinging with the real truth of what has been going on for centuries.

Let's not forget the fact that during the ancient Roman Empire, it was normal for men in high positions of power, the very wealthy Romans, upper class males, civic leaders, merchants, the top roman soldiers and other Roman males of independent means at the time have perverted sexual intercourse with minors. It was sanctioned and the general public had accepted it as a norm. Even some Romans considered it as a right of passage for young Roman males.

Remember the male choir boys who were castarted? It wasn't limited to preserving their soprano voices but also maintained and prolonged their adolescent features, thus making them more attractive to the generous benefactors of various institutions at the time.

Therefore it should be surprising to find out that several bishops, clergy and wealthy christians within the Roman Catholic church adopted some of behavioural practices of the day by virtue of being part and parcel of the general decadent cultural environment.

The man at helm should come clean once and for all, because the stain of clerical pedophilia is not going to go away any time soon. But it's will keep resurfacing in one way or another every year and in various countries where the Catholic church has had a presence for years.

The question is and will always be: When did the man at the helm know about it? How long did he know about it? How much did he about it? What did he do ro didn't about it?

It = pedophilia in the Catholic church, the institutional cover-ups and wall of secrecy that has been maintained for centuries with regard to the internal protection of pedophile priests around the world.

Anonymous said...

anon 12:24 PM

Don't you think it's ironic that an institution that still views sex as dirty, impure and on many occasions as a gateway to the fires of hell is now being haunted because some of its priests have had a preference of engaging in the more sinster type of perverted sex with minors for decades if not centuries?

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OLSEN TWINS NUDE
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/KATHE3.aspx]OLSEN TWINS NUDE[/url]
OLSEN TWINS NUDE
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/KATHE3.aspx ] OLSEN TWINS NUDE [/url]

Anonymous said...

KATHERINE HEIGL NUDE
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/KATHLENE5.aspx]KATHERINE HEIGL NUDE[/url]
KATHERINE HEIGL NUDE
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/KATHLENE5.aspx ] KATHERINE HEIGL NUDE [/url]
REESE WITHERSPOON NUDE
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/KATHLYN.aspx]REESE WITHERSPOON NUDE[/url]
REESE WITHERSPOON NUDE
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/KATHLYN.aspx ] REESE WITHERSPOON NUDE [/url]
BROOKE BURKE NUDE
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/KATHRINE2.aspx]BROOKE BURKE NUDE[/url]
BROOKE BURKE NUDE
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/KATHRINE2.aspx ] BROOKE BURKE NUDE [/url]
KATE BOSWORTH NUDE
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/KATINA2.aspx]KATE BOSWORTH NUDE[/url]
KATE BOSWORTH NUDE
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/KATINA2.aspx ] KATE BOSWORTH NUDE [/url]
JENNIFER GARNER NUDE
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/KATHYRN2.aspx]JENNIFER GARNER NUDE[/url]
JENNIFER GARNER NUDE
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/KATHYRN2.aspx ] JENNIFER GARNER NUDE [/url]

Anonymous said...

ASHLEE SIMPSON NUDE
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58029]ASHLEE SIMPSON NUDE[/url]
ASHLEE SIMPSON NUDE
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58029 ] ASHLEE SIMPSON NUDE [/url]
TARA REID NUDE
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58031]TARA REID NUDE[/url]
TARA REID NUDE
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58031 ] TARA REID NUDE [/url]
ROSARIO DAWSON NUDE
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58033]ROSARIO DAWSON NUDE[/url]
ROSARIO DAWSON NUDE
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58033 ] ROSARIO DAWSON NUDE [/url]
MICHELLE WILLIAMS NUDE
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58035]MICHELLE WILLIAMS NUDE[/url]
MICHELLE WILLIAMS NUDE
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58035 ] MICHELLE WILLIAMS NUDE [/url]
DREW BARRYMORE NUDE
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58037]DREW BARRYMORE NUDE[/url]
DREW BARRYMORE NUDE
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58037 ] DREW BARRYMORE NUDE [/url]

Anonymous said...

PAULINA RUBIO DESNUDA
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58041]PAULINA RUBIO DESNUDA[/url]
PAULINA RUBIO DESNUDA
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58041 ] PAULINA RUBIO DESNUDA [/url]
JENNIFER ANISTON SEXIEST GALLERY
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58043]JENNIFER ANISTON SEXIEST GALLERY[/url]
JENNIFER ANISTON SEXIEST GALLERY
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58043 ] JENNIFER ANISTON SEXIEST GALLERY [/url]
SCARLETT JOHANSSON BREASTS
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58045]SCARLETT JOHANSSON BREASTS[/url]
SCARLETT JOHANSSON BREASTS
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58045 ] SCARLETT JOHANSSON BREASTS [/url]
ALEJANDRA GUZMAN DESNUDA
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58047]ALEJANDRA GUZMAN DESNUDA[/url]
ALEJANDRA GUZMAN DESNUDA
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58047 ] ALEJANDRA GUZMAN DESNUDA [/url]
RUBIAS DESNUDAS
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58049]RUBIAS DESNUDAS[/url]
RUBIAS DESNUDAS
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58049 ] RUBIAS DESNUDAS [/url]

Anonymous said...

ASHANTI UNCENSORED
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58051]ASHANTI UNCENSORED[/url]
ASHANTI UNCENSORED
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58051 ] ASHANTI UNCENSORED [/url]
MEGAN HAUSERMAN NUDE
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58053]MEGAN HAUSERMAN NUDE[/url]
MEGAN HAUSERMAN NUDE
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58053 ] MEGAN HAUSERMAN NUDE [/url]
AMANDA BEARD NUDE
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58055]AMANDA BEARD NUDE[/url]
AMANDA BEARD NUDE
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58055 ] AMANDA BEARD NUDE [/url]
NINEL CONDE DESNUDA
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58057]NINEL CONDE DESNUDA[/url]
NINEL CONDE DESNUDA
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58057 ] NINEL CONDE DESNUDA [/url]
MODELOS LATINAS DESNUDAS
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58059]MODELOS LATINAS DESNUDAS[/url]
MODELOS LATINAS DESNUDAS
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58059 ] MODELOS LATINAS DESNUDAS [/url]

Anonymous said...

TARA REID DESNUDA
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58283]TARA REID DESNUDA[/url]
TARA REID DESNUDA
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58283 ] TARA REID DESNUDA [/url]
OLSEN TWINS NUDITY
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58285]OLSEN TWINS NUDITY[/url]
OLSEN TWINS NUDITY
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58285 ] OLSEN TWINS NUDITY [/url]
WOMEN CELEBRITIES EXPOSED
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58287]WOMEN CELEBRITIES EXPOSED[/url]
WOMEN CELEBRITIES EXPOSED
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58287 ] WOMEN CELEBRITIES EXPOSED [/url]
KATE MARA NAKED
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58289]KATE MARA NAKED[/url]
KATE MARA NAKED
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58289 ] KATE MARA NAKED [/url]
OLSEN TWINS VIRGINS
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58293]OLSEN TWINS VIRGINS[/url]
OLSEN TWINS VIRGINS
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58293 ] OLSEN TWINS VIRGINS [/url]

Anonymous said...

ASHLEY HARKLEROAD NUDE
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58295]ASHLEY HARKLEROAD NUDE[/url]
ASHLEY HARKLEROAD NUDE
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58295 ] ASHLEY HARKLEROAD NUDE [/url]
NIURKA DESNUDA
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58297]NIURKA DESNUDA[/url]
NIURKA DESNUDA
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58297 ] NIURKA DESNUDA [/url]
PINAY SEX SCANDAL DOWNLOAD
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58299]PINAY SEX SCANDAL DOWNLOAD[/url]
PINAY SEX SCANDAL DOWNLOAD
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58299 ] PINAY SEX SCANDAL DOWNLOAD [/url]
DISNEY'S RAVEN SYMONE NUDE
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58303]DISNEY'S RAVEN SYMONE NUDE[/url]
DISNEY'S RAVEN SYMONE NUDE
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58303 ] DISNEY'S RAVEN SYMONE NUDE [/url]
ASHLEY HARKLEROAD PLAYBOY
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58305]ASHLEY HARKLEROAD PLAYBOY[/url]
ASHLEY HARKLEROAD PLAYBOY
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58305 ] ASHLEY HARKLEROAD PLAYBOY [/url]

Anonymous said...

JESSICA RABBIT ADULT
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58333]JESSICA RABBIT ADULT[/url]
JESSICA RABBIT ADULT
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58333 ] JESSICA RABBIT ADULT [/url]
NATALIE PORTMAN SUNBATHING
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58337]NATALIE PORTMAN SUNBATHING[/url]
NATALIE PORTMAN SUNBATHING
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58337 ] NATALIE PORTMAN SUNBATHING [/url]
COLEGIALAS DESNUDAS
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58339]COLEGIALAS DESNUDAS[/url]
COLEGIALAS DESNUDAS
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58339 ] COLEGIALAS DESNUDAS [/url]
RIHANNA NIPPLE SLIP
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58341]RIHANNA NIPPLE SLIP[/url]
RIHANNA NIPPLE SLIP
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58341 ] RIHANNA NIPPLE SLIP [/url]
LIZ VEGA DESNUDA
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58347]LIZ VEGA DESNUDA[/url]
LIZ VEGA DESNUDA
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58347 ] LIZ VEGA DESNUDA [/url]

Anonymous said...

ELLEN DEGENERES GAY
[url=http://videoexclf1.vidiLife.com]ELLEN DEGENERES GAY[/url]
ELLEN DEGENERES GAY
[url= http://videoexclf1.vidiLife.com ] ELLEN DEGENERES GAY [/url]
SCARLETT JOHANSSON BUTT
[url=http://videoexclf7.vidiLife.com]SCARLETT JOHANSSON BUTT[/url]
SCARLETT JOHANSSON BUTT
[url= http://videoexclf7.vidiLife.com ] SCARLETT JOHANSSON BUTT [/url]
PAIGE DAVIS STRIPPING
[url=http://videoexclf8.vidiLife.com]PAIGE DAVIS STRIPPING[/url]
PAIGE DAVIS STRIPPING
[url= http://videoexclf8.vidiLife.com ] PAIGE DAVIS STRIPPING [/url]
STACY KEIBLER IN A BIKINI
[url=http://videoexclf9.vidiLife.com]STACY KEIBLER IN A BIKINI[/url]
STACY KEIBLER IN A BIKINI
[url= http://videoexclf9.vidiLife.com ] STACY KEIBLER IN A BIKINI [/url]
BREASTS CELEBRITIES
[url=http://videoexclf10.vidiLife.com]BREASTS CELEBRITIES[/url]
BREASTS CELEBRITIES
[url= http://videoexclf10.vidiLife.com ] BREASTS CELEBRITIES [/url]

Anonymous said...

PATRICIA HEATON NAKED
[url=http://videoexclf21.vidiLife.com]PATRICIA HEATON NAKED[/url]
PATRICIA HEATON NAKED
[url= http://videoexclf21.vidiLife.com ] PATRICIA HEATON NAKED [/url]
ANNELIESE VAN DER POL NUDE
[url=http://videoexclf22.vidiLife.com]ANNELIESE VAN DER POL NUDE[/url]
ANNELIESE VAN DER POL NUDE
[url= http://videoexclf22.vidiLife.com ] ANNELIESE VAN DER POL NUDE [/url]
NIKKI KNOCKERS
[url=http://videoexclf23.vidiLife.com]NIKKI KNOCKERS[/url]
NIKKI KNOCKERS
[url= http://videoexclf23.vidiLife.com ] NIKKI KNOCKERS [/url]
DEBRA MESSING NUDE
[url=http://videoexclf24.vidiLife.com]DEBRA MESSING NUDE[/url]
DEBRA MESSING NUDE
[url= http://videoexclf24.vidiLife.com ] DEBRA MESSING NUDE [/url]
AMANDA BYNES NIP SLIP
[url=http://videoexclf25.vidiLife.com]AMANDA BYNES NIP SLIP[/url]
AMANDA BYNES NIP SLIP
[url= http://videoexclf25.vidiLife.com ] AMANDA BYNES NIP SLIP [/url]

Anonymous said...

VIEW CELEBRITIES NUDITY
[url=http://videoexclf26.vidiLife.com]VIEW CELEBRITIES NUDITY[/url]
VIEW CELEBRITIES NUDITY
[url= http://videoexclf26.vidiLife.com ] VIEW CELEBRITIES NUDITY [/url]
FAKES HARD JENNIFER ANISTON
[url=http://videoexclf27.vidiLife.com]FAKES HARD JENNIFER ANISTON[/url]
FAKES HARD JENNIFER ANISTON
[url= http://videoexclf27.vidiLife.com ] FAKES HARD JENNIFER ANISTON [/url]
LORENA HERRERA DESNUDA
[url=http://videoexclf28.vidiLife.com]LORENA HERRERA DESNUDA[/url]
LORENA HERRERA DESNUDA
[url= http://videoexclf28.vidiLife.com ] LORENA HERRERA DESNUDA [/url]
ALICIA MACHADO DESNUDA
[url=http://videoexclf29.vidiLife.com]ALICIA MACHADO DESNUDA[/url]
ALICIA MACHADO DESNUDA
[url= http://videoexclf29.vidiLife.com ] ALICIA MACHADO DESNUDA [/url]
BRITNEY SPEARS COMIX
[url=http://videoexclf30.vidiLife.com]BRITNEY SPEARS COMIX[/url]
BRITNEY SPEARS COMIX
[url= http://videoexclf30.vidiLife.com ] BRITNEY SPEARS COMIX [/url]

Anonymous said...

JOVENES DESNUDAS
[url=http://videoexclf16.vidiLife.com]JOVENES DESNUDAS[/url]
JOVENES DESNUDAS
[url= http://videoexclf16.vidiLife.com ] JOVENES DESNUDAS [/url]
KENDRA WILKINSON UNCENSORED
[url=http://videoexclf17.vidiLife.com]KENDRA WILKINSON UNCENSORED[/url]
KENDRA WILKINSON UNCENSORED
[url= http://videoexclf17.vidiLife.com ] KENDRA WILKINSON UNCENSORED [/url]
NIURKA MARCOS DESNUDA
[url=http://videoexclf18.vidiLife.com]NIURKA MARCOS DESNUDA[/url]
NIURKA MARCOS DESNUDA
[url= http://videoexclf18.vidiLife.com ] NIURKA MARCOS DESNUDA [/url]
GALILEA MONTIJO DESNUDA
[url=http://videoexclf19.vidiLife.com]GALILEA MONTIJO DESNUDA[/url]
GALILEA MONTIJO DESNUDA
[url= http://videoexclf19.vidiLife.com ] GALILEA MONTIJO DESNUDA [/url]
DESNUDAS EN LA PLAYA
[url=http://videoexclf20.vidiLife.com]DESNUDAS EN LA PLAYA[/url]
DESNUDAS EN LA PLAYA
[url= http://videoexclf20.vidiLife.com ] DESNUDAS EN LA PLAYA [/url]

Anonymous said...

CHICAS DESNUDAS GRATIS
[url=http://videoexclf31.vidiLife.com]CHICAS DESNUDAS GRATIS[/url]
CHICAS DESNUDAS GRATIS
[url= http://videoexclf31.vidiLife.com ] CHICAS DESNUDAS GRATIS [/url]
BROOKE HOGAN NAKED
[url=http://videoexclf32.vidiLife.com]BROOKE HOGAN NAKED[/url]
BROOKE HOGAN NAKED
[url= http://videoexclf32.vidiLife.com ] BROOKE HOGAN NAKED [/url]
CELEBRITY FAKE FREE GALLERY
[url=http://videoexclf33.vidiLife.com]CELEBRITY FAKE FREE GALLERY[/url]
CELEBRITY FAKE FREE GALLERY
[url= http://videoexclf33.vidiLife.com ] CELEBRITY FAKE FREE GALLERY [/url]
ANNA NICOLE UNCENSORED
[url=http://videoexclf34.vidiLife.com]ANNA NICOLE UNCENSORED[/url]
ANNA NICOLE UNCENSORED
[url= http://videoexclf34.vidiLife.com ] ANNA NICOLE UNCENSORED [/url]
ADRIANA FONSECA DESNUDAS
[url=http://videoexclf35.vidiLife.com]ADRIANA FONSECA DESNUDAS[/url]
ADRIANA FONSECA DESNUDAS
[url= http://videoexclf35.vidiLife.com ] ADRIANA FONSECA DESNUDAS [/url]

Anonymous said...

MAYRA VERONICA NUDE
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/KRYSTLE5.aspx]MAYRA VERONICA NUDE[/url]
MAYRA VERONICA NUDE
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/KRYSTLE5.aspx ] MAYRA VERONICA NUDE [/url]
COLOMBIANAS DESNUDAS
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/KYLA4.aspx]COLOMBIANAS DESNUDAS[/url]
COLOMBIANAS DESNUDAS
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/KYLA4.aspx ] COLOMBIANAS DESNUDAS [/url]
HANNAH MONTANA NAKED
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/KYLEE3.aspx]HANNAH MONTANA NAKED[/url]
HANNAH MONTANA NAKED
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/KYLEE3.aspx ] HANNAH MONTANA NAKED [/url]
TARA REID BODY SHOTS
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/KYMBERLY3.aspx]TARA REID BODY SHOTS[/url]
TARA REID BODY SHOTS
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/KYMBERLY3.aspx ] TARA REID BODY SHOTS [/url]
CELEBRITIES EXPOSED THONGS
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/KYUNG3.aspx]CELEBRITIES EXPOSED THONGS[/url]
CELEBRITIES EXPOSED THONGS
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/KYUNG3.aspx ] CELEBRITIES EXPOSED THONGS [/url]

Anonymous said...

OLSEN TWINS CAMEL TOE
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58541]OLSEN TWINS CAMEL TOE[/url]
OLSEN TWINS CAMEL TOE
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58541 ] OLSEN TWINS CAMEL TOE [/url]
NEXT DOOR NIKKI VIDEO
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58543]NEXT DOOR NIKKI VIDEO[/url]
NEXT DOOR NIKKI VIDEO
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58543 ] NEXT DOOR NIKKI VIDEO [/url]
VIDA GUERRA BUTT
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58545]VIDA GUERRA BUTT[/url]
VIDA GUERRA BUTT
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58545 ] VIDA GUERRA BUTT [/url]
KENDRA WILKINSON GALLERY
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58547]KENDRA WILKINSON GALLERY[/url]
KENDRA WILKINSON GALLERY
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58547 ] KENDRA WILKINSON GALLERY [/url]
LIL KIM UNCENSORED
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58549]LIL KIM UNCENSORED[/url]
LIL KIM UNCENSORED
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58549 ] LIL KIM UNCENSORED [/url]

Anonymous said...

GORDAS DESNUDAS
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58569]GORDAS DESNUDAS[/url]
GORDAS DESNUDAS
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58569 ] GORDAS DESNUDAS [/url]
SCARLETT JOHANSSON GALLERY
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58571]SCARLETT JOHANSSON GALLERY[/url]
SCARLETT JOHANSSON GALLERY
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58571 ] SCARLETT JOHANSSON GALLERY [/url]
SARAH PALIN NAKED
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58573]SARAH PALIN NAKED[/url]
SARAH PALIN NAKED
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58573 ] SARAH PALIN NAKED [/url]
MILA KUNIS NAKED
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58575]MILA KUNIS NAKED[/url]
MILA KUNIS NAKED
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58575 ] MILA KUNIS NAKED [/url]
LAURA SAN GIACOMO NUDE
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58577]LAURA SAN GIACOMO NUDE[/url]
LAURA SAN GIACOMO NUDE
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58577 ] LAURA SAN GIACOMO NUDE [/url]

Anonymous said...

JOVENCITAS DESNUDAS
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58579]JOVENCITAS DESNUDAS[/url]
JOVENCITAS DESNUDAS
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58579 ] JOVENCITAS DESNUDAS [/url]
JENNIFER LOPEZ DESNUDA
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58581]JENNIFER LOPEZ DESNUDA[/url]
JENNIFER LOPEZ DESNUDA
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58581 ] JENNIFER LOPEZ DESNUDA [/url]
ARGENTINAS DESNUDAS
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58585]ARGENTINAS DESNUDAS[/url]
ARGENTINAS DESNUDAS
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58585 ] ARGENTINAS DESNUDAS [/url]
ADRIENNE BAILON NUDE PHOTOS
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58587]ADRIENNE BAILON NUDE PHOTOS[/url]
ADRIENNE BAILON NUDE PHOTOS
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58587 ] ADRIENNE BAILON NUDE PHOTOS [/url]
MICKIE JAMES NAKED
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58589]MICKIE JAMES NAKED[/url]
MICKIE JAMES NAKED
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58589 ] MICKIE JAMES NAKED [/url]

Anonymous said...

LEIGHTON MEESTER NUDE
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58591]LEIGHTON MEESTER NUDE[/url]
LEIGHTON MEESTER NUDE
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58591 ] LEIGHTON MEESTER NUDE [/url]
KATE BOSWORTH NUDE
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58593]KATE BOSWORTH NUDE[/url]
KATE BOSWORTH NUDE
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58593 ] KATE BOSWORTH NUDE [/url]
AISHWARYA RAI BIKINI
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58595]AISHWARYA RAI BIKINI[/url]
AISHWARYA RAI BIKINI
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58595 ] AISHWARYA RAI BIKINI [/url]
RAVEN SYMONE BREAST
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58597]RAVEN SYMONE BREAST[/url]
RAVEN SYMONE BREAST
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58597 ] RAVEN SYMONE BREAST [/url]
ELISHA CUTHBERT NAKED
[url=http://www.projectopus.com/user/58599]ELISHA CUTHBERT NAKED[/url]
ELISHA CUTHBERT NAKED
[url= http://www.projectopus.com/user/58599 ] ELISHA CUTHBERT NAKED [/url]

Anonymous said...

SARAH PALIN PORN
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/LAVON4.aspx]SARAH PALIN PORN[/url]
SARAH PALIN PORN
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/LAVON4.aspx ] SARAH PALIN PORN [/url]
JENNIFER MORRISON NUDE
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/LAVONIA2.aspx]JENNIFER MORRISON NUDE[/url]
JENNIFER MORRISON NUDE
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/LAVONIA2.aspx ] JENNIFER MORRISON NUDE [/url]
JENNA JAMESON FUCKING
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/LAVONNE7.aspx]JENNA JAMESON FUCKING[/url]
JENNA JAMESON FUCKING
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/LAVONNE7.aspx ] JENNA JAMESON FUCKING [/url]
ADRIENNE BAILON NUDE PICS
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/LAWANNA.aspx]ADRIENNE BAILON NUDE PICS[/url]
ADRIENNE BAILON NUDE PICS
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/LAWANNA.aspx ] ADRIENNE BAILON NUDE PICS [/url]
MUJERES DESNUDA
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/LAWRENCE4.aspx]MUJERES DESNUDA[/url]
MUJERES DESNUDA
[url= http://my.curse.com/members/LAWRENCE4.aspx ] MUJERES DESNUDA [/url]

Anonymous said...

EMMA WATSON PUSSY
[url=http://my.curse.com/members/LEANDRA3.aspx]EMMA WATSON PUSSY[/url]
EMMA WATSON PUSSY
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