This is what I want His Excellency President Mwai Kibaki to say tomorrow:
Fellow Kenyans, the hour is 1:30 p.m. On this Monday, April 20 2009, I have instructed our nation's military commanders to begin working on a war plan with Uganda over Migingo Islands. By taking such an action, I'm calling on the Uganda government one final time to pull its troops out of the sovereign territory of Kenya or be prepared for military action.
Due to the drastic nature of a potential war in this region, my government has worked tirelessly over the past weeks and months to get the Ugandan government to respect the territorial integrity of Kenya, but as you may have noticed our goodwill efforts have been met with sustained provocation from the Uganda military and the highest levels of that government. In fact, only a few days ago, after I personally spoke with President Yoweri Museveni and it seemed like this matter may be peacefully resolved, the Ugandan side responded by sending more troops into Migingo, arresting fishing Kenyans and flying reconnaissance planes over the island.
This is unacceptable.
As it is my duty to prepare Kenyans for every eventuality, and to protect the security of this nation as the commander in chief, I hereby exercise my constitutional duty by warning the Ugandan government that should these acts of provocation continue, the Kenyan military will launch an attack at a time of our choosing to defend the rights of the Kenyans on Migingo Island and to safeguard the timeless boundaries of our nation.
I still hope common sense will prevail and the Ugandan government will take this final opportunity to do the right thing. But should that fail to happen within the next few days, my government has elected not to take war as an option off the table.
God bless Kenya!
Samo aka Sam O,
ReplyDeletehe he he...
anyway, one is allowed to dream like MLK
You got it sam, let us kick some butt
ReplyDeletethat would be the day. Right thing but...........
ReplyDeleteWhat can one read into Governments inability to respond with anything except stupidity. Is the kenyan armed forces undergoing some crisis that Museveni knows and we dont? and he wants to test his theory? Is there a pending mutiny? Or does museveni have some kind of a death grip on our top leaders? The whole issue is very disturbing. I suggest that to get the ball moving Luos and Suba for that matter should threaten to secede and ask Musevenito become part of Uganda, since we dont seem to be part of kenya and certainly do not get the political and military protection that other parts of kenya seem to have....
What do you think Sam......) Call the bluff...........
I truly beieve that one of the reasons Kibaki can never make such an announcement is that he used the UGANDAN MILITARY during the post election violence especially in Nyanza. They were also allegations from ugandans themselves that their electoral officers were dispatched to kenya to help with the rigging.
ReplyDeleteHow can kibaki now turn around and start fighting the forces who are the reason he is in power.
Damn it just switch of the Oil taps and its game over. Secondly that article is nothing but shameless war mongering.
ReplyDeleteSam Okello,
ReplyDeleteYou are a disgrace with your line of thinking and yet you want to vie for an mp post tagging on railas coat.
why not tell your deity molasses to clear odm pigs from mau forest which is a far more serious issue than the 1km island that your kin are uprooting railway lines over. and while at it please get a cut like molasses commanded, am beginning to thing you reason with that head covered with a stinking skin.
Sam,
ReplyDeleteThe rumours are that Kibaki gave Museveni Migingo, in 2007 for his support in the theft of the election.
So maybe Kibaki will do nothing about this, after all Migingo is not Mt Kenya.
anon 4;15,
ReplyDeleteIs it just that you can never debate without resorting to name-calling? Face us with issues or don't face us at all.
How can it be that you don't see the hit the image of this nation is taking as Uganda plays these stupid games with our sovereignty. Museveni and any future agressors must be told in no uncertain terms that Kenya is prepared to to use maximum force to protect her image and dignity.
Get it?
Sam,
ReplyDeleteDo you want Kenya to bomb migingo or Kampala to please those advocating for military action.
My understanding is that over 80% population of the Migingo is Kenyan. The ugandan police are said to be in control and there is no evidence so far that they are trying to evict the kenyans though it is claimed that Ugandan is collecting Tax from the Kenyan fishermen.
I think going to war with Uganda over migingo is logistical nightmare, for it is too small to deploy the military. If there is war on that tiny island it is the kenyans population that would suffer.
@4:15
ReplyDeleteSuch people like you would sell Busia or Lake Turkana or Maasai Mara for 5000sh.
You are not different from Emilio. Yes he sold Migingo for Museveni's support.
You always talk bad of Raila. I assure you people frm Western Kenya would never never sell even one sqauare millimetre for a Billion dollars.
That's our problem in this country. There are a people who like money and power too much. They dont care about Kenyans. Emilio and his supporters like you are just behind materialism and nothing else. You even support Mungiki. What a people are you really?
Dont interprate this posting listerally. The posting is supposed to wake the sleeping Emilio to say something about the island.
ReplyDeleteNobody wants war but aggressive neighbours must face a harsh word from a strong president.
From his bevaviour the president cares less for all the matters concerning Kenya and Kenyans.
His only interest is his second wife and maybe the coalition. Other matters remain pumbavu.
anon@4:54 am,
ReplyDeleteLet's leave military planning and other tactical issues to our war planners. We have a military that is capable of using its might to make Museveni think twice.
What we must all realize is that a product of the bush like Museveni understands only one language: Force.
Yeah, let's kick some butt!
Anon 5.05
ReplyDeleteIf the purpose of this posting is to bash Emilio or ask the government to give an official position, it would be wise not to ask the government to issue a military action threat to uganda. My understanding is that the government is exploring the diplomatic option
Sam,
ReplyDeleteThanks for trying. You would make a better CIC than doppy geeser from Othaya.
I think someone needs to say to him that his second wife has something to do with it. Maybe that way Lucy will wake him up to deny and do something silly.
anon 5:28,
ReplyDeleteAt what point has diplomacy run its course? If after all these months we are now beggining to consider the diplomatic option, we are in an even worse shape than we imagine.
This is time for action!
whether you give up Migingo or keep Migingo the kenyan poor majority will not benefit either way - some rich connected family in kenya will benefit unfortunately always
ReplyDeleteSince UK wants to help, how about Migingo becoming a UK colony for 100yrs - in 100 yrs its economy and GDP might outstrip kenyas corrupt ecomony (just like Hong Kong and China)??? just a thought!
This is nonsense. This other guy aptly put it, just deny the Museveni idiot oxygen the way Moi used to do it. Something makes me think despite all the despondency Moi was a born ruler compared to what we have now.
ReplyDeleteCheck Barack Muluka's article. http://www.eastandard.net/columnists/InsidePage.php?id=1144011830&cid=490&
Sam,
ReplyDeleteKibaki doesn't have the stones nor the guts to do such a thing. Kenyatta did. Moi definately did. As I had said during the election frenzy where some folks labeled Raila a kihii unfit to lead, facing the knife does not make one David or Samson! Right now Kibaki is M7's bitch (pardon my french) and behaving very much like a kihii.
You all remember when UG claimed ownership of Kenya upto Nakuru? Did Kenyatta send ministers and police commissioner to UG to discuss anything? Heck no, he started moving millitary personel to the border and shut it down.
ReplyDeleteBut now Kibaki administration is full of cowards. I too suspect that there is more than meets the eye. UG has a penchant for using the guise of persuing terrorists like Kony into other countries and they end up camping there and plundering the place. Just ask Congo DRC. So what is in migingo? Oil? Because it just can't be fish.
Sam Okello is right. If we had a President who understands his job description, someone who takes seriously the interests of his employers and one who is adequate to the job of President, the Ugandan flag would not be hoisted on Kenyan territory. Period! We cannot keep defending an incompetent President.
ReplyDeleteWhen this matter errupted, our Foreign Affairs Minister, Mr. Wetangula led in diplomatic negotiations with these Ugandans. It soon became clear that our Ugandan friends had other ideas. They did not hide their disdain for Kenya's grievances. At that point, we argued that the matter should now be resolved by personal Presidential diplomacy, but Kibaki never really took the bait. He continued to entrust the resolution of this row with Wetangula who led a bunch of activist ministers to Migingo, some speaking in their village tongues. It just shows how lightly the President takes this issue.
It is clear that President Kibaki did not extract any concenssions, any commitments from President Museveni when they did eventually meet in Lusaka. He probably assumed Museveni was as disinterested in the wellfare of his people as he himself is. That is why when Museveni got to Kampala, he sent a dozen or so millitary officers. If that is not provocation, what is?
The President should now convene a meeting with the minister for defense,the chief of General staff and the entire security team to strategise on a full blown war with Uganda. You cannot keep employing diplospeak with a government that believes that the dispute will be resolved without "looking at history". That is aggression and it must be met with millitary force.
If this President continues to demonstrate his unworthiness of the title of commander-in-chief, he needs to do the respectable thing--step down and give kenyans a chance to elect a President smart enough, good enough and strong enough to stand up for what is clearly kenyan!
And another thing, if Kibaki was smart in real politik, this is a golden oppotunity for him to restore his image with Kenyans. Here is a chance to marshall the whole country towards a single goal - protecting our land. It is a chance for all Kenyans to be united as Kenyans in dealing with this issue. The first thing he should have done is followed Israel's example and demand all troops/police out of Migingo before any discussions can begin. Failer to that, close the border. Recall the Kenyan ambassador in Kampala and send troops to Migingo and even up to Entebbe!
ReplyDeletesam
ReplyDeletein fact most countries would have responded by first positioning the forces strategically then pursue diplo options.
the current "diplomatic option" under consideration is a joke, if it was a mutually agreeable position then either there would be two flags flying or none at all, and then either there would be security forces (police and/or army ) from both sides or none at all, pending the outcome or if possible a neutral force to "keep the peace"
and btw just which country sends the goverment spokesman on such issues, there can only be three possibilities, president, foreign affairs or security.
perhaps museveni is aware that corruption has seriously eroded ability of forces to respond to threat, i mean after all we spend $10m to repair 8 old military choppers instead of buying 10 new ones, recently a cargo of older assortment of suspect and possibly older weaponry was hijacked and we went about like confused chicken (remember wetangula saying no negotiation with hijackers and yet ransom was paid by someone for the safe passage)
someone just doesnt care about the welfare of the ordinary citizen and will not defend their rights from internal strife or external aggression.
How do you know Migongo Island is part of kenya?
ReplyDeleteVikii,
ReplyDeleteI hate to say this, but I agree with you.
I had to go to the bathroom, and wash my eyes, to check that I had read your comment properly. You actually believe Sam Okello is right.
Wonders never cease to amaze.
Kibaki doesn't give a punda's ass about Migingo.
His inaction speaks volumes.
How we know it belongs to Kenya? Well, their own government told us how they came to hoist the flag there and how their forces initially moved in there.They have admitted the circumstances that brought them there in the first place. What they have not told us is how they acquired ownership rights.
ReplyDeleteAnd still my friend, even if we didn't know it belonged to Kenya, does the very fact that both countries are claiming ownership not mean they should not have their flag there? What diplomacy are we talking about when one of the parties disregards common sense stuff and performs acts of provocation? If they were committed to an amicable resolution, they would abide by what is agreed upon.
Museveni military cannot defeat even Lord's Resistance Army
ReplyDeleteYour friend's enemy can never be your friend.
ReplyDeleteM7 has thrived with such tactics since he came to power. It would be very stupid for kibaki not to use hard talk in engaging him. When museveni helps you he always has his calculations right. Remember he almost annexed part of RDC after helping kabila to power, Why they disagreed with kagame yet he helped him to power, why he killed garang a freedom fighter of ages, and kibaki thinks he can reason with him , sorry.
By the way M7 hate for jangos did not start in 2008. Remember tito okellos of the post obotte era and the many peace deals they signed. He has been killing the acholis and padholas since the begining of his tenure either through konys resistance or lakwena. He wants to try his luck in nyanza this time round,is kibaki reading!
kanoo
Migingo is part of Nyanza. Kibaki has never bothered about Nyanza, so should we expect him to bother now.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of making it a tax free port, sort of Monaco or the cayman Islands which would be a big boost to both Uganda and Kenya.
ReplyDeleteNot cool to take the ugandans by declaring war as they are very experienced at invasions given their recent activities in Congo! Much better tear up the railway line and block the border posts.
Better to build a big economy based on dodgy banks and clandestine money transfers that will make the issue of 'a lot of fish' completely unimportant. At the moment it is just a small rock covered in mabati shantytown. They don't have to bother with flying toilets because thats what brings in the fish...........
whether you give up Migingo or keep Migingo the kenyan poor majority will not benefit either way - some rich connected family in kenya will benefit unfortunately always
ReplyDeleteSince UK wants to help, how about Migingo becoming a UK colony for 100yrs - in 100 yrs its economy and GDP might outstrip kenyas corrupt ecomony (just like Hong Kong and China)??? just a thought!
Military option at the moment is impractical for Kenya because Kenya does not have financial resources to sustain war. Secondly the army has not adequately practiced with the army vehicles that were held in the high seas for so long. Thirdly, the Kenyan Navy are better trained for the sea,not the lake (and also as someone has said, why and how would two armies be fighting around a one-acre plot?) Fourthly, Uganda says their constitution describes their borders very well, does the Kenyan one give any description of its borders? Kenyan borders are very porous and nothing has been done about it, what is so special about the Migingo one that action should be taken for it? The long term benefits of allowing the East African Community to form are much higher than those of fighting for Migingo.
ReplyDeletei suggest we allow Kibaki to take the diplomatic option and exhaust it (including reporting Uganda to the ICC) than rush for war. What I don't like is the lackluster and cavalier attitude Kibaki has assumed over the Migingo issue. He should talk tough. He should show that nobody will take Kenyan land that easily. How can he send a police commissioner to see a president over land issues? Did Ali walk with handcuffs to Uganda? Kibaki, give us reason to be proud to be Kenyans.
Guys and Gals, Migingo must have been M7s reward for assisting in the election theft and trying to sngle handedly ratify the results by rushing in a congratulatory message. How can the Baks ask for it when he has no interest in the residents???
ReplyDeleteMigingo is a none issue. Why would we risk a war we cant win over 1 acre of rocks. If its such a big deal i am willing to offer 2 acres of rocks in athi river .People its not that serious
ReplyDelete11.49, you are obviously being cheeky, aren't you?
ReplyDeleteFellow kenyans, next time we vote lets bet our luck on someone with a character. Not an old dog that cannot even bark within the boundaries of its homestead. Its a pity to wish Moi was still on hold.
ReplyDeletekanoo
Anon,
ReplyDeleteWhat is painful, is that most of us didn't vote for the old dog.
Those who did, should not be shocked by his tabias.
Tabia aina dawa.
I agree Anon. I did not vote for a thief neither but I share the responsibility as a kenyan for the failures of our institutions which led us to this predicament.We like him or not we have to keep with him as long as he lives. What Im asking is that this should serve as a lesson next time we have to vote;
ReplyDeletekanoo
Ok so we shoul fight over Migingo, who will foot the bill? A war over migingo? Fair enough, it is ours, but its not the loudest most agressive person that wins the battle. If you have read the Art of War, you would understand that we need to just strike once.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the day Uganda is awakening a sleeping giant. They can continue to poke and prod us, but it is our reaction that determines the outcome. They are just a pawn on the chess board. That island is legally Kenya's, otherwise, we can all start claiming what was justly ours pre-colonial times. At the end of the day, Kenya and Uganda are deliberately constructed states, and therefore, some territories do not lie in the original territories of tribes.
But to go to war? This is not the time to do it. The American war in Iraq and Afghanistan has cost them 1 Trillion dollars so far. And we have somalia in a civil war, congo in a civil war, sudan just rebuilding, and then you suggest things like this? No, no war, war is a last resort.
Anon 4.6 you raise some important arguments. But I want you to take a walk with me now;
ReplyDeleteFirst the argument that because war is expensive, it should nver be waged is plain wrong. Iraq has caused the US more than a trillion dollars, but what you do not get and which makes the difference with our case is that their war was, and continues to be, totally unwaranted. America was the aggressor of an innocent nation and it can only be joy that they have lost that much. In our case, we are being occupied. Are you telling me we should not defend ourselves?
Two,you acknowledge that the island is ours, but then you go ahead and advice that we avoid war as an option. What should happen when we have exhausted all other options?
Look here, our Ambassador in Kampala has assumedly raised the matter with President Museveni to no avail. When that failed, our Minister for Foreign Affairs initiated cabinet level discussions with the other side. That yielded no results. The President of Kenya then dispatched Police commissioner Ali to Uganda as an emmisary and still Museveni refused to budge. The President then took it upon himself--belatedly if I may add--to meet his Ugandan counterpart in Zambia. After that meeting the President through the Presidential press service communicated to Kenyans what they had agreed with President Museveni. He told us that they had agreed that no flag should be hoisted while negotiations took place. He also told us that Museveni gave him an undertaking that the military presence at the island would be recalled immediately. Before we even digested the press release, Museveni sent more military people to Kampala. Three weeks after the purported committment by Museveni, Ugandan flag is still flying there. Now you are talking about how war should be a last resort, what other avenue have we not explored?
Look here people, we have to put the country first and for once put aside this petty partisan politics that has consumed us for so long. We cannot keep defending incompetence. If the Ugandan government ceased an acre of land in Nyeri, would these so called negotiations be so draggy? There are no lesser Kenyans in this country. We all pay taxes to the government and we all proudly pay allegiance to that beautiful Kenyan flag.
When citizens of this country get harrased by Ugandan policemen when going about their business in their land and then we are told we are making a mountain out of a molehill when we demand that our government stands up for us, come on. Give me a break!
Vikii,
ReplyDeleteIs that really you? What did you eat today, please stick to this diet. It brings out the best in you. Or has Museveni made you see the light?
I have always been in the light my friend. If what you have in mind as light is a blind endorsement of a politician who, for me, is part of the problem if not the epitome of it, I will disappoint you. Pointing out what the President does wrong is not and cannot be an endorsement of whoever you consider his alternative. That is where most of you lose it. And that is why most of you are a frustrated lot!
ReplyDeleteI say lets call Museveni's bluff. Here is a country that depends 80% on Kenya to survive from Oil to soap and we are busy negotiating with them.
ReplyDeleteI say lets choke this M7 fella. It's a insult to the Kenya Navy that a nation that officially has no navy can continue to occupy our island and yet we pay millions of shillings to train our Navy. Torpedo the Ugandan boats and call Museveni's bluff.
I say Migingo is not just 1 acre of rock. It is 1 acre of rock that belongs to the REPUBLIC OF KENYA and that is enough justiification to switch off the oil taps to Uganda.
Let the Ugandans use Dar esallam where they are ven less popular than Kenya.
I say wasituletee ...but
I say this Island belongs to Mary Wambui, the very second first lady.
That should prompt someone to act, isn't it?
Reality,
ReplyDeleteKenya declares war on Uganda. We close the borders, recall our diplomatic fellows, recall our students studying in UG universities, high schools, close Kenyan owned businesses like KCB, Equity, KBL, NMG...etc, evacuate the Kenyans on the disputed island, move our military to the island and drop bombs on UG military personnel deployed there.
Uganda responds by taking out Nyanza, hundreds die, kenya drops bombs in Kampala, kills hundreds and destroysn infrastructure, UG bombs Nairobi.....destroys the city centre, kills thousands...kenyan economy loses billions, investors fold up and leave the country, politicians fly out with their families......
this is the reality that no one is mentioning. Kenyans, stop stupid suggestions. we are already dying of hunger courtesy of Ruto, Mau forest which odm politicians gladly own is making our rivers and lakes dry out. the enemy is not UG, the enemy is our political class. I support non military action, after all what have we done with the other thousands of undisputed land if we are still languishing in hunger? what difference will Migingo make? Will it add sufurias of Ugali on our table?
Suppose there were oil deposits on the Migingo rock?
ReplyDeletefor those stupid enough to buy the oil theory, oil deposits are not usually found in a single spot like a trough. jeez, you just need to google to get such kind of info for free. why are kenyans so dumb and stupid????
ReplyDeleteDo lose this false bravado, you stupid imbeciles and listen, even a little, to anon 7:34 pm who is thinking on the right track, and quite rationally, if I may add.
ReplyDeleteThe same people who argue for the rule of law are the same agitating for war. Hypocritical degenerates!
Every country has the right to retaliate when aggressed. It is not the monetary value attached to the island we are concerned with, It is the principle.
ReplyDeleteWhen somebody talks of the rule of law, why then do nations have armies? War is not entirely illegal if we can teach you for a moment. The most solemn duty of any President is to guarantee our security, our sovereignty.
It is just a piss-off when we defend the indefensible. We have a maziwa lala President who is well aware of what he should be doing, but wont ever do it. President Museveni would never have tried these amateurish games with Moi. Let us go for elections, folks!
Winston Churchill quote:
ReplyDeleteNever, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. Antiquated War Offices, weak, incompetent, or arrogant Commanders, untrustworthy allies, hostile neutrals, malignant Fortune, ugly surprises, awful miscalculations — all take their seats at the Council Board on the morrow of a declaration of war. Always remember, however sure you are that you could easily win, that there would not be a war if the other man did not think he also had a chance.
- Roving Commission: My Early Life (1930)
I say that Kianga is a coward and Kibaki the CIC is moribund/ Incompetent
ReplyDeleteA guy penned a nice article in standard on Kenyas inability to wage war on Uganda. We have 24,000 troops with 68 tanks against Ugandas 68,000 with 174 tanks. Museveni Knows he can overrun kenya and therefore can afford his games. By the way musevenis apparent build up of military arsenal happened under kibaki watch. Moi ensured that the army always matched our traditional enemies such as Uganda
ReplyDeletemany war mongers in KK....tired of throwing stones in Kisumu???
ReplyDeleteWhy start war over a one acre rocky island? Am told before the year 2000 the island was unoccupied. Kenyans discovered the island's environs were endored with fish and hurriedly occupied it.So no one is sure it is Kenya's. The mere fact that the majority of its inhabitants are Kenyans does not make it Kenyan territory.
ReplyDeleteMy suggestion is that Kenya should just let it go to uganda and use the proposed 140m on demarcation to feed the hungry kenyans and plant some trees in mau forest.
Anon 11.24 You are the kind of people who would glady watch your wife being raped then get shafted in the ass....and still try to negotiate with your assailants. Congtratulations for being a peace lover! By the way do you know why the world is constantly at war? Its because of lack justice.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, FYI, the Kenyan military has no capacity to wage war on ANY OF OUR NEIGBOURS including Somalia. An inside military source says Al Shabaab can unleash untold horror on the Kenya army. Ati proffessional? Proffessional in shining boots, matching on national holidays, and drinking AFCO....
I went drinking with some 2 relas who are in the army. We decided to panda a moving truck....imagine i pandad first and swift? After talking with them over a drink i realised that the guys are so unfit pysically, morally and mentally for war. They just couldnt imagine losingf their lives for the country...what an army.....
ReplyDeleteThe only valid reason Kenya should not fight over Migingo is to avoid a military embarasment which is obvious. Trust me, i have info from reliable sources that kenya military has no capacity to wage war on any of our neigbours including Somalia (read Al Shabaab). We should therefore negotiate with hope that Uganda accepts our right in the spirit of EAC....Believe me, even if the military was used to contain post election violence they would not be able to do so; these guys have simply not seen any combat and are not mentally, pysically and spiritually (very impt) prepared to fight and die. The police would do a better job hands down.
ReplyDeleteFor in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the very definition of slavery. We demand for fresh elections. Kenyans never voted for Grand Coalition.Then we can talk about Migingo with the right Gova.
ReplyDeleteKenyans,
ReplyDeletelet us all get Ugandan flags and put them everywhere; on top of KICC, Mt. Kenya, at The coast on all buldings including your houses, do this one day and you will see what will happen, both to the sick M7 and to our moribund guy. That is a quicker solution than the diplomatic or military option.
The issue of migingo is not a tribal issue.
ReplyDeleteIt is an issue of whether Kenya has a right to its sovereign territory
and if we don't we might as well give up the whole country to the ugandans.
someone please explain to me why there has to be a process to determine where migingo stands despite the fact that all maps which are existence show that it is in kenya.
ReplyDeleteMutahi Ngunyi penned an interesting article full of white truth jana on sunday Nation. Please read.....We should stop praying for Kibaki,his family and other politicians. Its like praying for pirates!
ReplyDeleteDID YOU KNOW....
ReplyDeleteThat the Somali pirates have the resources and capacity to unleash untold horror on our underequiped, poorly trained, unprepared Navy? They can simply wipe out the Kenya Navy (which has abt 3 functional 'warships') in the absence of foreign forces policing the indian ocean, who themselves have failed to contain the pirates.
That if 30,000 simple, able bodied, willing and averagely organised kenyans are supplied with AK47s & RPGs they can easily defeat our army? even without training and take over the country?
That it is common knowledge that the Kenya military looses battles daily against simple bandits in the harsh northern frontier? That they surrender and negotiate with the bandits to survive?
With all this in mind, war is just not an option in the migingo issue, unless we sack the CiC, and reorganise the military competely of which we do not have the will, resources or even the stomach to do
FACT
In addition to above, tactically speaking, the dry northern frontier acts as a natutal barrier against our enemies in the north ie Somalia...in the absence of this, Al shabab could easily appear in the ourskirts of nairobi...... By the way it is a known fact that insurgents make repeated incursions into kenyan territory in the knowledge of our very obviously incompetent (yes i said it) military. The only thing stoping them from reaching tana river is the harsh climate and lack of equipment. Pray to God that Ethiopia (who have 100,000+ troops and advanced equipment) doesnt become our enemy. They would simply extinguish our army in under a week. This is the truth therefore please keep way out as an option...we have to continue sucking up to our neigbours, beg them to reason and offer them all sorts of tokens even if they push our borders...
ReplyDeleteDo you know why the US lost the Vietnam war? Simple geeks were armed with AK 47s, sheer will and determiation to unleash terror on the morally, mentally unprepared marines. SIMPLE FACT. Now our military not only lacks this but also the equipment, technology and numbers to fight any battle including with simple bandits in NEP......THIS IS THE TRUTH AND I HAVE FACTS TO BACK MY COMMENTS. I AM PATRIOTIC BUT WE MUST STICK TO THE TRUTH AND FACTS HERE NOT EMOTIONS
ReplyDeletethis anon rubbishing our displined forces should stop assuming that since he can throw stones in kisumu like bullets, that war is like that. such imbeciles and morons really need to be schooled. our forces is well armed and as those who have learnt about the art of war knows, a tiger does not go around asserting its tigritude, it strikes.
ReplyDeleteanon, go uproot more railway lines. burn your town down and loot as many shops as you can. thats the language that ODMorons taught you. leave the issue of migingo to level headed people not goons.
Sam, the only people with the ability to stop UG is ordinary Kenyans who should block/ burn UG trucks, blow the pipeline in KSM, and uproot the railway.... the Kenya Military at the moment neither has the capacity or ability to fight ANY war. If facts, figures as well as history are to speak, we cannot fight not only UG but also TZ, Somalia (yes we cant fight this lawless state with 24,000 troops armed with G3 rifles), Ethiopia, Sudan (including South Sudan who are building up their reserves) ETC. And i will include Rwanda (yes this tiny state) coz i know they have fought and beaten repeatedly UPDF, and congo army in the expansive congo forest
ReplyDeleteAnon 3.07 and Sam O
ReplyDeleteLike most kenyans you are either ignorant or naive. The fact that kenya army is reffered to by UN as proffessional doesnt make them have the ability to fight. In addition, Kenya military has earned 'medals' for peace keeping not waging war. FYI peace keepers simply carry recon missions and show 'presence' to deter agression by fighting factions, they do not fight or stop fighting in the countrires sent using force. These are two different issues I have provided/ and will provide if requested facts and figures and would appreciate the same from you rather than sweeping tribal statements. Please stop cheating yourself that by having a few hundred soldiers matching during madaraka day, having 3 fighterjets fly over our stadium that our military is strong enough to defend kenya. With all due respect, please wake up and realise that this country is very fragile and our neighbours know this fact, but can you stomach the truth? No. Kenya under president Kibaki has not had any imporovement whatsoever....instead of buying warships, they kulad anglo leasing money...now we cannot defend our territorial waters including migingo. Be advised that if kenya starts a war over migingo we will be embarassed. However, maybe that is what we need to wake up!
Anon 1:07 i refer you to anons 11.09 quote from Winston churchil. You dont win a war by reading theories abt art of war! War is complicated and no country (read UG) starts an agression without the balls to back it militarily. This is the truth, therefore bend over and get shafted by M7
ReplyDeleteanon 3:48,
ReplyDeleteno one is interested in your cooked information. my advice, take that info, fold it and shove it up your dry dirty ass where it will be of better use. oooh, carry stones to migingo and make bado mkapambano war cries as you stone Ugandan's. thats the closest you will get to having a war with UG. better still, why not go tell your molasses deity since he is a powerful PM to command luo forces to migingo or is he that powerless? the only thing that moves him nowardays is absence of a toilet after eating all our maize reserves.
you are the people that our learned and good president calls pumbavu....
Vikii:
ReplyDeleteSovereignty is NONSENSE. Why is Kenya not bombing the US, UK, Germany etc--they screw around with our sovereignty on a daily basis for close to a decade now.
So just shut up and negotiate with Museveni, use the Int'l courts, whatever. Let's stop this stupid hypocricy and war mongering. It's sooooo WEAK.
The question Vikii is why should we retaliate? At what cost? Its not just Migingo to deal with, and to be honest, Museveni is just using empty threats.
ReplyDeleteDont underestimate diplomacy, because look at US/Iraq, it was unjustified but they went in.
I dont understand anyone advocating for a war in migingo, I mean, a war in migingo is a war in the whole of Kenya, and then on top of that we have our own wars to deal with.
Ultimately, that island is ours, we dont need to fight physically because it is already ours. If Uganda has time to wage wars over small islands, but it cant even sort out the LRA that is shameless.
Museveni is facing more opposition than ever at home, and so needs to look like he is doing something. When push comes to shove, it will drag on, until none of those fishermen will be making money.
I do agree that UG have provoked us, but for territorial issues, we need to be careful, we dont need a gaza situation, perpetuating forever. Those of us who have done military strategy should know that we must make sure our strike against this is not guessed.
let UG cry foul, its just ridiculous.
Anon 4:06
ReplyDeleteYou call clear facts 'cooked', si then give us your facts? How foolish and ignorant can someone be? Do you know how to read? I did not say that i want Kenya to go to war. I precisely said we shouldnt since we obviously do not have the capacity to do so, and this is because:
1. Our military is not mentally,physically, spiritually prepared to die for their country;
2. We neither have the numbers, equipment(weaponry), technology etc to fight. The 1967 fighter jets we pride ourselves with cannot escape a simple stinger guided missile or any other Surface to Air Missile (SAMs) which uganda has in plenty;
3. We have an incompetent CiC and CGS who do not inspire the military. A soldier has to believe in his commander and cause for him to be willing to give his life. this is currently lacking. Now what other FACTS do you want?
Listen to this my good people...whenever the Jews realize that their internal division is making them vulnerable to external attack they go to war with the Palestines and against a common enemy they reunite...KADIMA and LUKUD do have eminent divisions that even threaten to tear Israel as a state but their leaders on realising this do chose to take the battle to Gaza strip and again the nation is reunited. Museveni has provided Kenya with the only opportunity to reunite as a nation but seemingly our CIC is not ready to sieze the opportunity...We hit them hard in Migingo and all Kenyans will the proud of this unified nation!!!
ReplyDeleteWhy do men fight?
ReplyDeleteWe would recommend this book: WHY MEN FIGHT, by Bertrand Russel.
We can email a copy to anyone interested.
why should we read books on why men fight? where is the value? how will that help us? bure kabisa. if you have nothing to add here jst shut your trap.
ReplyDeleteargumentation around migingo is just plain SILLY. ah, sovereignty....when all else fails.
ReplyDeletewow....that is a scary one....
ReplyDeletewww.nipate.com/forums/
....where the crowds meets....
to all the Anonymous who say kenyan army can't defeat UG's army.what happened when amin dared to invade western kenya.what happened when museveni dared to occupy malaba/busia.ans-nothing.UG's army can't even defeat the LRA-OVER 18 YEARS NOW AND COUNTING.the LRA is an shame for on UG's military ability.the fact that ug's army have fought LRA and other bush rat rebels make thems battle hardened is just as illusion.amin learn't the hard way and even with the help of the libyans he couldn't defeat TZ's army.some of you are quoting figures that are cooked up.ug's army is not bigger and well equipped than kenya's you can google up the figures.problem with kenya/military is a retarded stupid kibaki whose preoccupied with selling kenya.
ReplyDeleteThis clamor for war is pathetic. It costs money, and ever since WW2, civilian deaths have outnumbered soldier deaths. Is that what some of you want? More Kenyans to die in a conflict over 1 acre in Lake Victoria?
ReplyDeleteThe simplest solution is a reference to the ICJ. The most suitable place to deal with such matters. If we go down the Eritrea/Ethiopia route where millions of dollars were spent in a border dispute, we face bankrupting the country.
BASTA!
http://nipate.com
ReplyDelete...the burning issue....
123thjoe
ReplyDeleteI agree with your view on Kibaki being a problem. However, on the military you are wrong. Remember, we are not saying that the kenya military has never been capable. Under Kenyatta and Moi, the military was impt to them and they always ensured that the military of kenya matched our traditional enemies and neigbours. You cannot get accurate info on any army on the internet. The numbers are grossly underestimated since they rely on iformation filed by member countrues to the UN. Now,no sane country would do that. The figures here are based on accurate intel (trust me it is). Do you remember the UN complaining that many weapons passing thro' our port, including tanks are not accounted for in the security council? These weapons have been goung to our neigbours such as UG, Rwanda and South Sudan. Now, the UG military has been stocking up and adding its numbers to back up its aggressive policy on its neigbours such as DRC. On LRA, the reason M7 doesnt want to finish them is because he is using it to hold ugandas at ransom so that they keep him in power to defend them. He has no intention of finishing them or signing a peace deal coz that would be signing his retirement. Just yesterday, UPDF uprooted beacons, that demarcates our countries, on our border at pokot. This is because M7 has seen that we are not capable to defend ourselves and this is a FACT. Our military as it is now without adjustments cannot wage a serious war until it is overhauled, restocked and beefed up and then crown it with a serious CIC. This will not happen under the othaiyan sloth whose only concern is that Muite said that he has two wives!
FORGET ABOUT MILLITARY MIGHT OF KENYA, WE HAVE NO INTELLIGENCE, NO MIGHT. LOOK AT MUNGIKI? AIBU AIBU TO KIBAKI AND HIS TEAM
ReplyDeleteI PITTY ALL ADVOCATING FOR A WAR AGAINST UGANDA OVER MIGINGO.
ReplyDeletea. Will you participate in that war in order that we believe your propaganda that 'You are willing to die for your country"? and die, indeed you would.
b. The British fought the IRA for decades without sucess. Does that mean the British Military is weaker than that of our Country (Kenya) who have never lost "any battle?" The Ugandan prolonged fight ahgainst the LRA shouldnt mislead us. Insurgencies can drag on irrespective of how superior a countering Military is! Look at the US, Britain, Indonesia, Phillipines etc in cases of Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Mendane etc! If we judge the Uganda Army basing ourselves on the LRA's longevity (forgetting about 10 rebel groups uganda has extinguished) we shall be digging a grave for our Kenyan Military.
c. Ask any Military planners and they will tell you, the hardest enemy to fight are the Insurgents BUT not National Militaries. Uganda has accumulated a lot of military knowlegde through their constant fights that if our Military buys the idiotic ideas of waging war against Uganda over Migingo (as if Diplomacy has failed), i will be ready to sympathise with their orphans and widows in great numbers. WAR IS NOT A NECCESSITY AT LEAST AS OF NOW. AND BY THE WAY WHEN DID WE BECOME ALL THAT MILITANT AS KENYANS? MOST MEDIA PIECES ARE FULL OF WAR CRIES OVER MIGINGO THESE DAYS: UNFORTUNATELY OR FORTUNATELY NOT FROM THE MILITARY BUT FROM SELF ACCLAIMED PSEUDO CIVILIAN WAR PLANNERS WHO WILL SURELY GO UNDER THEIR BEDS ONCE THE FIRST SHO IS FIRED!! HYPOCRISY!!
in that case lets disband the army and divert the millions of funds on shady projects and upkeep to other more worthwhile activity
ReplyDeleteWe are peace loving people,and to add on this we do not know what our big fish is saying co z they are never sincere,am sure they sold the island,but how i wish the president could come out srong in defence for his people.
ReplyDeleteI salute the brother up with the long article, I absolutely agree with him. first am ugandan if anyone would like to know. But am really concerned because the people who calls for war are those who know nothing what war means. I suggest that those MPs who wants war should first surrender their diplomatic passports before they leave innocent kenyans suffering from war they never called for but hypocritic MPs. Like the brother said up uganda has been in war mostly all the time and surely more experienced that your military. Most of you live abroad UK, USA and chances are you will not experience that war if it were to break out but you have relatives in kenya dont you? So do you want to sacrifice them for a one acre rock? Some of you said that you have modern tanks and other weapons but I would bet you a million dollar if war is to be majority of those will be Ugandas plus Migingo I hope there you can see the loser so war is not needed Mugwanya.
ReplyDelete