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Wednesday, August 06, 2008

Can We Detribalize Kenya?

Hate rules the world.

No, I'm not being cynical or feeling hopelessly discouraged, on the contrary I'm bringing up an issue that has the potential to one day destroy our country. In my travels, I've come to realize that wherever I go, hate is always a very powerful force or emotion. I've traveled to parts of the United States where I sat in a Holiday Inn lobby watching news and suddenly the TV was turned off. When I asked why it was being turned off, here is the reply I got. "I'm turning it off because nobody is watching it." You get the point? I am a nobody because of my skin color.

Hate.

Then I think about Rwanda. This is where more than one million Hutus killed the Tutsis because of simmering tribal animosity. If you've had a chance to watch Hotel Rwanda, Don Cheadle starring, what you've witnessed is how cruel and cannibalistic man can be. The hate that's projected in that movie is enough to make one wonder whether there is any redemptive quality in man. Yes, there's Mandela and Mahatma and Abraham Lincoln, men who fought hard to turn back the tide of hate in their communities, but for each of them, there were hundreds of others who fought hard to preserve the legacy of hate that they inherited from their forefathers.

Hate.

And recently I was talking to a Mexican friend of mine. She has watched the immigration debate in America and Europe. What this good professor sees is hate, pure and simple. Why, for example, do the Australians find it necessary to put asylum seekers in detention centers...with their wives and children? Would they still detain them if the immigrants were predominantly from a Western nation with a Judeo-Christian background? And why does Europe continue to enact immigration laws that are clearly meant to keep black and brown people out? They say they want to control the flow of immigrants into their shores and plan their future effectively. I agree with that. But when you look at the punitive nature of these new laws and the fact that they are enforced by the great grandchildren of men and women who enslaved our great grandfathers and grandmothers, don't you begin to wonder about fairness? So when you see so many Africans turned back from Europe, you know what's at play here.

Hate.

And before I turn my attention to Kenya, I want to remind us of what happened in Israel. Over there, a number of people managed to get out of the boiling Darfur, tiptoed into and through Egypt, then crossed and landed in Israel. When word of their presence reached the Israeli authorities, they were promptly rounded up and sent back to Darfur. To the boiling pot. The minister responsible said beaten down Sudanese were economic refugees! Can you believe this? Had the Israelis never heard of Darfur?

Hate.

Closer home, I look at the ongoing tribal animosity with increasing fear. Since the sixties, we've practiced the politics of tribe. First it was the GEMA and the Luo community coming together. This was an alliance that sustained a Kenyatta presidency. The other thing it did was to keep smaller Kenyan tribes on the periphery of power. Then there was the KAMATUSA. This alliance sustained the Moi administration. The other thing it did was to turn Kenya into a Kalenjin Kingdom. Now there is the Kibaki administration. This is one of the most cynical administrations to ever rule Kenya. Before the coalition government was put in place, it had literally turned Kenya into a Kikuyu Kingdom. The downside to this kind of politics has been to tribalize Kenya in a way that if not checked, could lead us down a path to a revolution. Why? Because alliances inevitably create an US verses THEM complex. These alliances create hate. Is it any wonder that our brothers and sisters in Central Province felt left out in the Western Alliance of Raila, Ruto and Mudavadi? And is it any wonder that Kenyans have felt left out in the grab grab grab mentality that's characterized the Kibaki leadership? When will we start practicing the politics of ideas? When will we go with issue-driven campaigns? Policy-guided leadership?

Hate.

I fear hate.

When the Hutus called the Tustsi cockroaches, they went all out to exterminate them. When the Nazis called the Jews rats, they went all out to destroy them. And now, I see a Kenya where Kikuyus are called thieves, the Luos are called dirty and AIDS carriers, the Luhyas are called watchmen and ugali-eaters and the Kalenjin are called dumb and militaristic. This is the language of hate. It must have no place in a modernizing Kenya. We must all work towards a Kenya where our children will embrace all of the nation's children as brothers and sisters. Where genuine admiration will exist for the Kikuyu for their liberation of our nation from colonial bondage, where accolades will be extended to the Kalenjin for turning over power peacefully when Moi's Kenyatta was beaten at the polls, where the Luo will be respected for producing some of the nation's best brains, where the varied tribes of our nation will be celebrated for their strengths...strengths that together form the beautiful stretch of land that we all adoringly call our motherland.

Forgiveness.

Fellow Kenyans, let hate give way to forgiveness. We've all done things that have oiled the path to hatred. The first step is to look deep inside and see where our actions may have abetted this vice. We don't have to announce to the world what a self-examination reveals about our hateful ways, but we can all begin by forgiving ourselves and making a promise, to ourselves...individually, that we'll work hard to advance harmony rather than project hate.
I know that it's not easy to let our prejudices go, but I also know that we must start the process of letting Kenya emerge as a cohesive, loving nation.

Folks, the world out here is full of hate. We must work hard to create a place where our children can grow up without experiencing the bitter hate that rules the world. It would be nice if one day all of the Kenyans of the Diaspora will come back to a nation unified in love and purpose, a place where they will come back to rest after battling the fears and indignities of living in a thoughtless, cold world.

I know we can detribalize Kenya.

Let's start now!

For Love of Country,

137 comments:

Anonymous said...

Okello,

Who are you to question hate while yourself you are full of hate? We have seen the way you write articles here and there no question in mind you are just like the nazis.

Phil said...

I think we can detrabalize Kenya if we can master the will and overhaul our constitution with the aim of devolving executive powers.

Our political system has created an unfavourable competition amongst our people and unfortunately, the majority (never mind what tribe they are) always end up being seen as the victors. This breeds inequality and marginalisation. (sounds familiar, right?)

Our politics is the one single driver of HATRED in Kenya. Fix the politics, you will have fixed the country and put it on the way to cohesion and development.

Kwale said...

I have commeted on this issue here before and I have said most of our problems can be remedied if we;

1. Encourage community dialogues on aggrieved matters like land issues, wealth disparity etc by enlisting the support of human rights and community organizations to work together in dealing with these matters.

2. We should all respect the differences in our country. While you should be proud of your ethnic origin and culture, that does not mean you can disrespect or feel superior or inferior to another group.

3. We should all act as a role model to others. Children and people around us respond to how we deal with people from other ethnic backgrounds. Treating others fairly sends the message that no one should be treated differently because of their ethnicity.



And here are my simple tips on how we together can overcome ethnic hatred;

• Encourage those who make tribal comments around you to stop.. that may make them realize how bad it sounds and stop altogether.

• Try to not refer another ethnic group as "them," "they," or "it."

• Avoid using slang terms for other ethnic groups.

• Don't be friends with people that disrespect other ethnic groups it could make a bad image for you.

• Remember this " we all bleed red"

Anonymous said...

Can someone try to forward this to my Kikuyu brthers and sisters here in London? I actually see alot of what Okello has written in them. They are the most tribal of all the people I have lived with! In the spirit of forgiveness I will not dwell on their bad tabias but they need to read this. If there are misterseed readers here please encourage your brothers....They need redemption from pure negative tribalism covered as pride as being a kikuyu. God help us all to understand that we are all MUTU.

Anonymous said...

With the amount of hate in Kenya, I seriously fear for the future of our country. Sorry for sounding so negative but detribalizing Kenya will not happen in our generation. There's simply no political will.

We have old skool elite who refuse to vacate power while naive Kenyans keep re-electing these dinosaurs. On the ground with common citizenry, progress is slowly being made with lots of intermarriages between various ethnic entities.

Myself II have married from the Kalenijin but only recall this when there's a debate similar to this. Yet every election time we go back to Stoneage and kill our friends and neighbours for only one reason, their tribal background.

Why can't we all be like our brothers Tanzanians who co-exist peacefully without any jealousy and envy? Kikuyus and Luos should remember we have other 40 tribes in Kenya. Life should not just be about these two dominant tribes!

M-Pesa

Nbi Kenya

Anonymous said...

lets not point fingers since that shows how unforgiving we are. this is one of the best articles i have read here. lets not dilute it with names of tribes.

true we need a kenyan tribe where our small dialects do not matter.

i hope this is the beginning of mature debate and posts from the editors and contributors.

Ivy

b-carotene said...

Excellent post!

Kwale said...

Sam Okello,

Sorry, I forgot to congratulate you on this post. It’s your best post to date.

One more point to add, If we are to overcome our own prejudice and hatred we must emulate other countries closer to home like Zambia and Tanzania. In Zambia there are more than 70 tribes and they all live peacefully and as matter of fact most people have now intermarried with other tribes. And there is no such thing as ancestral land in Zambia. Everyone is free to buy land anywhere they wish.

Enyambu said...

Okello,
This is a very well thought out article. Lately... just lately, there has been over-emphasis on what the individual Kenyan can do to alleviate tribalism. We seem to forget the 'average' Kenyan has no problem with anybody from whichever tribe. There is very little I can do to fight an ill I'm not party to. Tribalism only benefits Kibaki, Kalooser, and Mr Molasses. These are the people who will always play the tribal card when it seems to favour them. Kill the politicians and you have a tribe-friendly Kenya.

Ivy said...

Ivy my namesake i agree with you and trust me this is one of the most sober comment i have read from you.

Now who is "We" that is the qn? Detribalizing (is there a word like that?)Kenya begins with I as an individual. It begins with my heart and attitude towards that tribe. Changing my attitude does not need a community forum where i am gonna be taught or passing some constitutional papers on cohesion. You see if i am to read another tribe's culture then i better head to the Kenya national museum they have settings for every tribe and their culture, their way of life. I dont need to be taught how to love, it springs out but i must deal with my heart and that is a personal initiative. You get the drift? I may learn yes ..Then What? Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks....So i am imagining seeing a particular tribe as lazy, idiots, thieves, dirty etc then today iam seeing them as different just coz i learnt about them...Nonsense of the year it is called hypocrisy at work.

Enyewe kwa hayo machache...off the post Ivy don't you think it is high time you get your own name?

Kwale said...

Having said all that I have said above, I am beginning to smell a rat here. Is this the same blog that is always Kikuyu this Kikuyu that? Why suddenly turn into UN peacekeeping? A road to Damascus conversion for Kumekucha? It was only yesterday someone wrote "Earth Tremors Return to Nairobi"....an interesting development has been quietly taking place in the Kikuyu area in the outskirts of Nairobi…"

To be safe I will remain sceptical about this post.

Anonymous said...

Kwale,

There is actually a place in the outskirts of Nairobi called Kikuyu..

Vikii said...

This is a very positive development; Seeing the gods and goddesses of tribalism preaching respect and peaceful coexistence. Well, I wish you luck, folks.

It has gotten to a point where I personally do not care. It would be very foolish to listen to those whose sole mission and motive in life is to see the extermination of a particular tribe which somehow is supposed to be the cause of all their problems--some very strange logic in my opinion.

Just give me all the Luo girls and keep fighting. Piganeni mpaka ile siku mtakufa.

Anonymous said...

Another dumb one from sam okello. Can we detribalise kenya?NO. Prejudice will never disappear from the world. By bringing in the Tv incident and the situation in euorope, you acknowledge this a worldwide problem. What can little kenya do? I would agree we could try to be more politically correct in kenya. I am always amused how africans in kenya become so angry when a redneck utters a minor racial insult but they themselves openly abuse one another based on tribal stereotypes. I know you have a stereo type about my tribe but why tell me so openly. Lets try to be more PC. Hio tu.

Those who are talking about Tanzania will have to find a way of doing away with our many languages. But then again there is Somalia with one language!

Anonymous said...

Ituuzayo tia iyo isokuwako si dawa.

Wananchi, stultum est queri de adversis, ubi culpa est tua. PERIOD!

Tam Tam said...

I agree with the anons above that this is Okello's best post ever. Can we start preaching peace and one Kenya right here on Kumekucha.

For once Vikii is on Okello's side. I think this is big!

Anonymous said...

The only tribe in Kenya that brought about this nonsense of tribalism are the STUPID, IDIOTIC KIKUYUS.

Travel around the world, they bring that stupidity with them from Kenya. IT IS A FACT AND THE BITTER TRUTH. Had their kinsman not stolen the election, Kenya would be a better place without people talking about buying property anyway.

The thing is, apart from Central and the Kikuyus, anyone else can easily assimilate and buy land anywhere in Kenya. They had to learn the had way. You buy land in RVP and name the area KIAMBAA, trust only a silly Kyuk to do that.

No more sugar coating, NIMESEMA, tribalism will only die in Kenya when these thieves, prostitutes, muggers, con-men from Central learn how to respect other Kenyans and their cultures.

NIMESEMA....

Anonymous said...

Anon 6.00

Nobody says you can't buy land in central Kenya. Central provience is open to all and you are ALL wellcomed!
Feel free to move into Nyeri, Muranga, Kiambu, Kirinyaga or Nyahururu. Sisi hatuna matata.

Anonymous said...

This is a story that has come into is talking about it;


"...Lost in the prefabricated ethnic-tribal storyline were the real events and their complex causes. For example, No foreign media noticed that among the first wave of rioters were the thousands of Kalenjin youth who had just completed their rite of passage into adulthood in the circumcision camps in Eldoret, Western Kenya.

Equipped with a new sense of power and male identity, thousands of Kalenjin youth went on a rampaging march through western towns up to Nakuru in Rift Valley, burning farms and houses belonging the 'outsiders' living on 'their' land..."

Anonymous said...

anon at 6:00, lets not condemn the Kikuyus. We need to love these brother. As Sam says, let's first forgive ourselves, then forgive the Kikuyus.

Kimi Raikkonen said...

Sam Okello, good post. Just hope you are serious.
Anon @ 6.00am. You obviously know very little about Central province and you very probably have never been there. Go to Kerugoya in Martha Karua's constituency and find the biggest Garage there owned by a Luo. Nobody has told him to go away, yet he has been there since 1984. Go to Meru and you will find Luos who have settled there for many years. Go to Murang'a town and find Councillor Oloo who has been re-elected consistently against Kikuyu candidates since 1979 to date including in the last elections on a PNU ticket.
Why are you also complaining about Kikuyu naming villages in their language where they settle? If you go to small towns all over Kenya, there is a so called Kisumu Ndogo in Luo settlements in all these towns, including in as far a place as Lamu. Nobody takes issue with that. Why is it a big deal if Kikuyus do the same?
Travel your Country and get to know it, not sitting on your black behind all day dreaming up fantasies. Ignorant idiot.

Anonymous said...

Vikii said,

...Just give me all the Luo girls and keep fighting...

YOU MUST BE KIDDING RIGHT?

Vikii, all the venom you spew on kk tells a lot about your character. You are what we call 'dondi'- a man who complains about everything and will count the pieces of meat left in the sufuria and do the same before the next meal to make sure none 'disappeared.' Luo women do not like 'dondruok'(whining), we would rather our men focused on more important things.

Anonymous said...

Anon 6.00,

We kikuyu we love everybody, we may have disagreements and differences but we are nice people.
We are the only tribe that has intermarried with all other tribes. So like anon 6.09 said, feel free to come to our land, a fertile land of rolling green hills, mountains, rivers, valleys and abundant rainfall. We also have many beautiful women so feel free also to take one as your bride.

Mama Njeri

papa plus said...

Okello,
You sat at a holiday Inn and they turned the TV off on you as a nobody? What did you do about that?
Did you complain to the manager? I would have. I would have called the local TV station and I would have blogged about it. I would have SUED! In th US I know that somethings are not tolerated. Especially if there is a lot of money and reputation at stake.

As for Kenya, where to begin? A lot of people make good money and energize their base through tribalism so I do not think it will be an easy fix.

Anonymous said...

Sam Okello can you repeat again on the history of kenya and fighting for Liberation from when the Arabs invaded east Africa to the Portuguese carry forward to the British?? during which slavery was also practiced- be very careful when you claim one tribe liberated kenya-

that is a blatant lie the liberation of Kenya started before the British even stepped foot in kenya- From uprising can you go back read your history of kenya carefully- many kenyans died at the hands of the Arabs(reminds us of the modern day Durfur) and Portuguese who specialist in slave trade on the our coastal provinces...

and going inland in the west we had the Kavirondo kingdom ruled by King Nabongo Mumia of wanga who fought the Brtish too -

now central was just a follow up of all the other tribes of kenya who had been at it for years uprising against the Arabs first then the portuguise then the British..

what I would question is how come no detailed history is found on the Arab rule of east Africa and the Portuguese(where salve trade flourished)and only the fast forward of the British empire???

post facts Sam Okello no kikuyu tribe liberated kenya alone- go read your history of kenya and east Africa further.......

Anonymous said...

Tribalism has been etched and engrained in the very fabric of the Kenyan society and everything Kenyan, that it would taken a long time to rid our country of this vice.

We do indeed have to start somewhere.

Good post Sam.

Anonymous said...

anon2:14 AM

Kwale do shut up!! you are the worst Hitler on here full of hate and even chest pumping on how you enjoy hating other tribes- remove the speck from your eyes first before you post nonsense here- you are a piece of works...

how do you look at yourself in the mirror every morning?? do you see fags in your mouth instead of teeth?? you my friend are the one of worst human being born in Kenya,,and there are more like you out there which i believe there are- then Kenya has no hope of removing tribalism period!!

Anonymous said...

Kimmi,

Councillor Oloo died sometime in 2006. He never saw last polls.

have a factual day.............

Papi said...

Someone said change your thought and you will change the world. People, the ODDs are against black people. You only need to see what Obama is going through to see the power of hate. And also someone suggested that its only black immigrants who will enlighten the West about Africa. First they need to see us read and excel in their universities. Here at the US, African immigrants seem to be doing well academically, albeit not all. This is a point of envy even from the Black American community. Yet since we talk in accent we are labeled "stupid". I think the whole hate thing, oppression is tool to control resources. The black man only needs to change his thought to turn tables on the white man. No hate intended but stark reality.

Anonymous said...

anon6:09 AM

ha!!ha!!ha!! you are hilarious- and i will answer you on this stupidity you have posted here actually lie lies and do not remind me- no other tribe is welcome to buy land in central

please post here any name even one go to lands registry and name one person from another tribe that has land in

1. Nyeri,
2.Muranga,
3.Kiambu,
4.Kirinyaga
5.Nyahururu
or any other kikuyu municipality or districts?
Even if another tribe is married to the a kikuyu from central any land in central will be in the kikuyu spouses name never ever the spouse from the other tribe...


LET US NOT POST PROPAGANDA AND LIES HERE- KIKUYUS AND CENTRAL PROVINCE ISOLATED THEMSELVES FROM OTHER TRIBES IN KENYA BY THEIR OWN ACTIONS OF DISCRIMINATING..

First step for central is to give back all IDP's(this are the Mau Mau veterans families) back their land that KENYATTA STOLE FROM THEM- this will move out most of the IDP's we see in the Rift Valley now- that will reduce the land grabbers and let the Rift Valley original owners back on their land that the British colony had taken away from them...

START FROM CORRECTING THE MISTAKES AND LAND GRABBING KENYATTA DID TO KENYANS-
OR YOUR WASTING YOUR TIME PREACHING TO KENYANS TO STOP BEING TRIBAL/?

LAND - SHELTER- FOOD- CLOTHS - EDUCATION IS VERY IMPORTANT
AND WHEN SOME HAVE STOLEN FROM OTHERS FOR YEARS AND YEARS- AND TAKEN AWAY A RIGHT TO SURVIVE FOR OTHERS LIKE LAND ??

WHERE THE HELL DOES ANYONE SEE FAIRNESS IN THIS EQUATION??
TRIBALISM IN KENYA WILL LIVE ON UNLESS THE PAST KENYATTA LAND GRABBING IS CORRECTED....FOLLOWED BY MOI E.T.C

Anonymous said...

ANON5:03 AM

only a fool can post this- extermination?? yup when kibaki executes more than 500 mungiki youths for the sake of power and greed- i agree with you totally - one tribe is heading that way- when the same kibaki and his cronies burn his own tribesmen in Eldoret church and then turn round and scream Genocide to confuse the world and lie blame on odm for the act then i agree with you totally- there is only one tribe in kenya which can go that far for the sake of power and they are their own enemy-
kibaki executes= sends the same Mungiki to exterminate and he then executes them - a vicious circle that this kikuyu tribe is used to...

Anonymous said...

Allow me to compare our country to a hand - with the fingers representing the various tribal groupings.

If not for one sore thumb, the hand would be functioning properly.
The other fingers are up in arms because the hand cannot function properly and rightly so because the injury could have been avoided.

Folks we are grappling with historical wrongs initiated during Kenyatta's time. The other fingers are up in arms because Kibaki's regime has institutionalized these wrongs.

Although most are honest, our Kikuyu brothers and sisters truth be told, have a propensity to hog everything in their path. How are we supposed to forgive, forget and move on when we have one revelation after another of their fraudulence?

The most recent case is KR. How much has happened in the last 5 years that we still don't know about?

True, we need fortitude to go past our present rot, but aren't the kikuyus supposed to be going the extra mile since they are the ones generally perceived to be the sore thumb?

Tandie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

When Kenyans are representing Kenya on Fri, it wont matter whether they're Kale's or Kyuks, we'll all be cheering for them. Tomorrow we will also be remembering all Kenyans that died 10 years ago on that fateful day.

The issue here is simple, we're only Kenyans who forget tribe when attacked by terrorists or when facing other nations. Go figure. Which will unite us more?

Anonymous said...

During the campaigns of 07, RAO advocated devolution and rightly so.

The ruling MKM elite run back to their brethren and spun this as they are out to kill and finish the Kikuyu. Knowing full well that had Majimboism seen the light of day in Kenya, the cookie jar that they so often dip their hands in would not be as full as it used to be.

Kenya is ready for MAJIMBOISM as one of the cures to tribalism and hate that is so prevalent. Let people in each region/province chart their own way based on their prevailing circumstances.

Anonymous said...

You cannot have a post here without Kikuyus, even this highly praised post from Sam Okello there is still raving and rants about Kikuyus. What do you want from Kikuyus?

Anonymous said...

You cannot have a post here without Kikuyus, even this highly praised post from Sam Okello there is still raving and rants about Kikuyus. What do you want from Kikuyus?

7:17 AM

THEY NEED TO FORM THEIR OWN COUNTRY AND LEAVE THE REST OF US FOLKS ALONE.

Anonymous said...

beautiful post. but coming after hundreds of hate posts here, i suspect this sudden change of heart is too little too late.

As the brilliant Phillip Ochieng told ODmers, a war aganist 50 corrupt men is winnable. A war aganist 8 million innocent people is not.

ODM lost the plot when it went on a killing /rape rampage of people who were as much victims of thr systems as they were. They cant win againist the kyuks or any other community for that matter. from Pharaoh to Hitler, no one can fight a community and win. what is more likely to happen is that Kenya will be reduced to ashes.

odm betrayed the very revolution it had birthed.

Anonymous said...

But I suspect, from the posts I have seen here, that am speaking to people with the intellect of a gnat. its beyond their brains to comprehend.

Kwale said...

Anon 6.45, I cannot believe you can call me your friend me the "worst Hitler" what a contradiction? How did you work out I am the worst tribalist person in Kenya? Worse than Raila Molasses Odinga who call Kikuyus 'adui'? No other political leader in history has ever used that term to refer to his/her fellow citizens other than Adolf Hitler. You just don't call your fellow countrymen enemies, pure and simple.


I love this one,
"…how do you look at yourself in the mirror every morning??..."

Easy-peasy mate, after shower in the morning I stand in front of the mirror stark naked and enjoy the reflection I get back, especially from the waist below. Very nice! And the upper part, no fangs only six packs abs. Fearfully and wonderfully made!

Tipei said...

Read animal farm..

all tribes are equal but some are equal than others- this extends to skin color around the world.

How to stop tribal warfare in Kenya?? not sure at this sensitive period it will be easy- though one important thing most kenyans on the ground have noticed is today's youth/ young generation decided not to follow in the footsteps of their parents/family
and this generation has stuck together - they do not preach tribalism "surprise surprise"

I do believe strongly tribalism in kenya is with the old generation and in this way it has festered long and of course used in politics for things like employment in government, corporations e.t.c

I hope this youths and young future generation in kenya which i admire did not follow in the hate politics will weed all this tribal propaganda out of the window.

yet again most important is the land issues from independent have to be sorted out too.

Ivy said...

Anon 6:32

Ei yawa

papa plus said...

How come the Tanzanians are not as tribal as we are? I have been to provincial high schools where the parents day meeting was run in vernacular. I've been in areas where while boarding a bus, the conductor will ask for money in vernacular. The truth is that we identify ourselves by tribe. probably what needs to happen is that tribes need a PR office. Tribes needs to celebrate their successes in academics, sports, etc and not just in one of their own being an MP or VP or President. I think we like to identify the negative aspects of tribes ergo the thieves, watchmen, intellectually inferior, etc. That is wrong. Even in the US, if you want to hire a mathematician, get an asian for the job.

Charity begins at home.

Anonymous said...

anon7:04 AM

I second you on that 100% but the same kikuyu's keep screaming murder!! then stealing and not caring about how htey are destroying kenya- look at the RVR- we know on the Uganda side there is a big scandal on this deal - I understand in fact from a friend of mine in Canada- Uganda had send out an SOS to the Canadian company which Tendered for the Same railway tender and lost - to come on board- but the Canadian Company declined and said they would not work with crooks-

Everyone knows that The Rift Valley Railway was done and sold in the worst illegal manner that could have happened because them kikuyu's were protected by kibaki

kick back for this deal was more than $20 million we hear??

let Ababu and the group follow the money trail through to uganda Government - it is easy follow the money or do they need help???

people already have the details on which kenyans received money on this deal and I'm sure it will be given to the MP's to raise it up in parliament this week or next week-

this is the beauty of being able to pass on information to the Members of parliament without even jeopardizing your own identity- sweet....

Anonymous said...

anon 7:22

I believe this is what you were saying before sripping!!! and sridding!! with your kikuyu accent....


PNU plotted when it went on a killing /rape rampage of innocent people of kenya from other tribes PNU could not win cant win against the other tribes or any other community for that matter, this is why they had to commit genocide using the mungiki terrorists and murder gang. from Pharaoh to Hitler, no one can fight a other tribes and win. what is more likely to happen is that Kenyans will push the kikuyu's out to central lesotho kenya and control them from there and let other tribes and communities enjoy a peacefull kenya without rapes,, looting, beheading, murderer, car jacking, etc

kalamari said...

Hate is the greatest acknowledgement of an existing inferiority complex. You don't hate somebody because you think you are better, you do so because you believe, if given a fair chance, he or she will surpass you. So you protect yourself by putting others down.

The only way to eliminate this vice is by creating an acceptable fair playing field (at least on paper). In our case, by writing a truly 'Kenyan' constitution. I agree with Phil.

The American constitution was created by men who passionately loved their country. They loved freedom and liberty. They didn't get everything right but they made a great effort to address Americanism. The current Kenyan constitution on the other hand was borrowed from the queen's library, shredded to pieces and then put back together by men who for the most part should have been digging pit latrines in the village…..full time. A constitution of thieves will only serve thieves. No offense to Shikuku and his mostly dead friends, but it is becoming clear that all these folks did in Lancaster was drink whisky and admire tall buildings. They came back here with a document that has been used to plunder and reap the fruits of this country for the benefit of the president and his friends and family.

Okello, the hate you see in Kenya is a product from the foxy bunch of touts who sat in the libraries of Lancaster wondering how and why there were so many books on the shelves when all one needed was a few pages in the constitution that emphasized the powers of the presidency and the creation and maintenance of regional chieftains. Their only motivation was an opportunity to dominate their constituents. They succeeded…and in fact enrolled us into their self seeking regional armies. So here we are today, jealously protecting the will of our tribal chiefs.

My only fear is that we may have fully accepted the realities of our divided communities. We can pretend all day that we can overcome this hate as a nation. Even a very strong and stout mkamba man like Vikii wants to date all the Luo women on earth. Most of the time, this unity is but a dream. We may just want to live separately.

So why not majimbo?

b-carotene said...

@7:22 am. Thanks for the reminder, couldn’t have expressed it better. It’s never too late, though.

As for mama njeri, I’m with you on all counts, save for your generous offertory of pretty Kikuyu girls. No, the hyenas of KK must be vetted.

Now, it’s a pity that most of you here, bound by your blinkers of hate and tribalism, have chosen not to see the opportunity presented by Sam Okello’s post, however suspicious it may seem. I have decided to heed his call, but then never was I a hate filled tribalist.

Building on the positive spirit of earlier posts, I would like to add that detribalizing (yes, Ivy, we create a new word right here on KK! :) Kenya would require actions on very many fronts over a long period of time. [God knows would have been less painful had Molasses Raila and his five goons not embarked on a hate-fest while seeking votes!]. But anyway, you’d expect that many lessons begin right from the home, and if not the home, then we expect the school curriculum to take its due place in helping shape the Kenyan nation. I remain silent regarding the church’s role. Backing up the school and the home—what happened to the hate crimes bill? You’d expect, if enforced, it can begin to build the norms of tolerance for diversity that is so critical for democratic governance, punishing without fear or favor those that do not comply.

But still, all this is necessary yet insufficient. Broader reforms that devolve power and resources back to localized settings, where people have a say in priority setting to meet their development needs is a total must (note this is not equal to majimbo/perversion of operation rudi nyumbani). Today, many people are happy to naively and/or conveniently blame the ‘enemy’ tribe for all their problems--even just a very lazy browsing of KK reveals that. Vote-seeking (and sleazy) politicians perpetuate that, and wananchi are OK with it—better to have ‘one of your own’ in to ‘secure’ your stake in the national cake than none at all. Who knows, as the dregs may fall closer to you this time around?

In short, dealing with hate (tribal, or all other forms—I saw a lesbian being rounded out here on KK) is not easy as it is fundamentally about re-socialization, re-culturation (new word?) . It is about re-education and about effective sanctions. Political will is at the heart of all this. It seems that President Kibaki and Molasses Raila have resolved to cooperate. I dont see why Kenyans of goodwill cant do the same.

Shaddy said...

Phil and Kalamari,

I keep hoping that within the next year or so, Kenyans will sit at the table of brotherhood and chart a well thought out constitution, one that will not only reflect, but will be seen to reflect the interests of all Kenyans. We owe it to our brothers and sisters who died in January, and to the IDPs and those still in Uganda, to work purposefully towards creating a representative and durable constitution. This document would be a starting point. The work that will follow will be hard, but we all know that nothing good comes easy.

It starts with respect!

Sam Okello

Ivy said...

B-carotene your comment; As for mama njeri, I’m with you on all counts, save for your generous offertory of pretty Kikuyu girls. No, the hyenas of KK must be vetted."

Relax...No vetting, by the time you are vetting, your dear sister would have moved in...They give my brothers no option....You get the drift. Practical example "Fidel Odinga never finished paying dowry and your dear sister was already "making dinner and breakfast"

Anonymous said...

Ivy, thoo yawa!!!!

Kwale said...

Kalamari, I second you on that.

How do you define hate?

Hate is described as simple as an intense feelings of dislike. And in Psychology dictionary hate is defined as deep, enduring, intense emotion expressing animosity, anger, and hostility towards a person, group, or object. And that why many psychologists consider hate to be more of an attitude or disposition than a (temporary) emotional state.

Hate can be direct resultant of; Disappointment , Disgust , Doubt, Fanaticism, Fear, Frustration, Gratification, Pride , Rage , Regret, Jealousy, Hopelessness, Self-pity, Shame, Suffering, Emptiness, Guilt , Annoyance, Envy , Hostility etc etc.

This then lead us to the next question, why do we hate in Kenya? And what are the situations that lead us to hate?? Can Sam Okello please unravel the reasons as to why we hate? Unless we tackle the root cause will are not going anywhere and that's the reality.

b-carotene said...

Come now, Ivy. Quite predictably you you took issue with this—but such is as it is.

Is dowry ever delivered in full, in one shot? I thought it was about building and cementing relationships—mistaken, I probably am.

And then, was there ever the Kikuyu equivalent of a wedding? A complicated, barely pronouncible (?) name of an event.

But mama njeri, dont by misled. Do not give away your national treasure just like that.

Ivy said...

B-carotene...You know what i mean...Can i take this further...Nah i dont think so total waste of time.

Fidel being who he is....Should atleast have had a wedding before Wacu moved in...ama? Never mind what they do behind the scenes atleast in a normal african home?

Does Boaz yahya ring a bell to you...Pls let me not go further than that!!

But anyway you will agree with me that my brothers from the west do know how to make a woman feel special?

Anyway if marriages are gonna make me love a tribe that i didn't like then why not...Let us encourage inter-marriages.
if they will enhance love

End if

Ivy said...

By the way i am yet to hear on TV or even read on papers that a woman from central has been held hostage by a man from Nyanza/Western against her volition.

Do you have any case study?

Anonymous said...

Wow Sam,

You've got this one just right. You sound very much like your luo brother-soon-to the next president of the most powerful nation in the world.

You are an orator my friend. Are there any politicians in Kenya reading Kumekucha? I hope they are. Because in you young man, there's a great talent of speech writing ready to be tapped.

I hope you can drop your presidential ambitions and be the next Kenya's president speech writer. They need brains like yours.

Could Kibaki hire you as his speech writer? I hope he can consider this.

KN said...

God bless you all .I have laughed at every single comment to this post we are all entitled to our opinions .Mungu a wabariki

Vikii said...

"Hate is the greatest acknowledgement of an existing inferiority complex. You don't hate somebody because you think you are better, you do so because you believe, if given a fair chance, he or she will surpass you. So you protect yourself by putting others down."-------------Kalamari (Andy Capp)

Can someoe say AMEN. My opinion which is not only personal but also right is; This is the best thing ever written here. The truest of stuff.

Anonymous said...

Ivy,

I'm tickled by your statement:

"Fidel Odinga never finished paying dowry and your dear sister was already "making dinner and breakfast"

As my grandmother says one musn't appear too eager to 'cook' for the man. (sounds better when put in kiluga_ - ''the girl said YES as Fidel was clearing his voice to start talking'' ----before she even knew what he was about to say.
Money factor? You bet.

Anonymous said...

I have had first-hand experience of what it means to be discriminated at work because of being of a particular tribe. It is the worst form of discrimination one may ever dream to be subjected to since it dehumanizes your personality. No one ever applied to be born of a particular tribe therefore I don't not understand why communities should hate each other. I have always wondered what would have happened had Luos and Kikuyus been neighbours with a common boundary? Would they be fighting each day and what would they be fighting about?

Fortunately, in those two occasions I went through this form of discrimination at the work place I learnt to be positive about it all by not expressing any negative emotions against these people. I came to understand where they were coming from and I knew that they needed time to know me as a person defined by his abilities and not by his tribe.

I know it would take time for such people to appreciate who you are and I am not saying that they will totally abandon strongly held beliefs towards you given your tribal background. I can tell you that in those two occasions these people turned out to be my best friends and we are still in touch to-date.
The thing I have learnt while interacting with people from different communities in Kenya is that there are certain groups who feel that it is their job to punish people from other communities for unknown 'injustices' committed against their tribe.
As long as these stereotypes and perceptions held by us are not forsaken, it will be difficult to detribalize our beloved country. In this respect I totally agree with Okello that the onus is on us as individuals.

Anonymous said...

vikki,

you said : Can someoe say AMEN. My opinion which is not only personal but also right is;...

why must your personal opinion be right? You are just too cocky and that's what spoils some of the good stuff you write on kk.

UrXlnc said...

sam

excellent post, and very worthy comments above

kalamari with you on your comments

if we leave the bigots and chauvinists out of the mix, hate and tribalism have been incremental until the full blown violence. the progression is from discomfort or general uneasiness, to some increasing dislike, bitterness and hate.

and i agree is detribalization hacking at the symptoms and not the cause/source? i think so.

first off i dont think we really want to detribalize (see kwales comment) there really is nothing wrong with our tribes (i.e language and cultures and there's a lot to be proud of.

so lets take a deeper look at what the real problem is.

i think the real monster is the linkage between corruption, access to resources or service delivery and the "tribe"

you can replace tribe with
ethnic, tribe, race, gender, religion, wealth and other differentiators that characterize or lead to discriminatory and segregrational corrupt practice

let me explain this further (kindly bear with me or ignore the triviality of the example), if we observe a typical kenyan queue for service (matatu, bank, grocery, jobs, food, entertainment, etc). all is moving smoothly then out of the blue, a fellow will walk past the queue to the head of the line, speak a few words with the "queue manager" and whooosh fella receives his/her services and is off. the murmuring in the queue is they are of the same tribe, or s/he is very loaded, or they are village mates, school buddies, same church etc. it is not uncommon to hear our friends loudly proclaim, when i go to that office i never ever queue, i go direct to the big man or send one of my minions direct.

my point is, all these demographic profiles only become an issue when they determine, impede or accelerate, or otherwise interfere with the nature, quality, capacity, efficiency, speed and reliable access to IMPARTIAL public or private enterprise services and resources.

if you queue to pay a water bill and there is a (digo speaking) computer robot serving (kalenjin) customers first come first serve basis that collects cash (in luhya), stamps bill (in luo), returns receipt (in kikuyu) and shouts next (in kamba) and absolutely refuses to serve any queue jumpers (corrupt fellows) .......

remember the problem is when those differentiators are used to accelerate, impede or deny or otherwise affect the quality and nature and your right to private or public service and resources.

Vikii said...

10.13, I am not here to receive accolades, my friend. I actually hate accolades, and yes, I am arrogant!

UrXlnc said...

meant to also add that the constitution touches on this

http://www.bunge.go.ke/downloads/constitution.pdf

page 42 section 82

and therefore the National Ethnic Relations Commission Bill is really a very confusing animal, how is the govt going to go about forcing people to like each other

http://www.knchr.org/dmdocuments/Ethnic%20Relations%20Bill.pdf

i agree with KNCHR

http://www.knchr.org/dmdocuments/Ethnic%20Relations%20Bill.pdf

we should enforce anti-discriminatory practice in provision of services

if you and i can receive and/or deliver service, impartially, consistently, at the highest quality available, all the time, then it does not matter what language we speak, what demographic profile the other person ascribes to and it then should not matter whether the other person hates you or not.

Anonymous said...

Vikii so are you here as the master spinner of hate?

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:45

Learn to ignore Vikii, he once proclaimed that he is gray-haired. So therein lies the root cause of his bigotry, chauvanism and contrary to universal belief - idiocy.

Its some of these gray haired fellows that have contributed to the quagmire that is Kenya today.

b-carotene said...

Dont be silly!
Law is not about forcing people to like each other. It is about order and predictability--getting people to live together, without killing each other at the smallest. The US is about the best example--full of people who simply hate each other unapologetically, but the network of laws and norms is such that minimal standards are required (and enforced) in many arenas of human interaction.

Follow this link to a quick education about hate speech, its definition and efforts to deal with it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech

UrXlnc said...

b-carotene

you've said the same thing i did.

relax

Proud Kikuyu Woman said...

Man, are we having a rebirth, or what! Forget the revolution, this is the evolution we needed all along. I guess it has to come from the 'right' quarters..... whatever it takes.

Vikii said...

10.59, interesting!

Will you please LEARN to IGNORE Vikii. Can you start doing that really quick?

b-carotene said...

urXlnc:
Nope. You havent said everything.

Service delivery is but a part of human interaction, of which it is unclear which services were, as an example, being delivered when people were inciting others during the 07 election campaigns?

You relax yourself.

UrXlnc said...

b-carotene

that service is called public administration

the candidates (politicians) were submitting their application to the electorate (people to give them their jobs)

in so doing they brought in their resume (what they have done vs what more they can/will do) and what they considered most important i.e. appeal (whip up emotions)

very happy to oblige

Shaddy said...

Vikii,

Thanks for your kind words. We've all fallen short and must now work to build the bridges that keep us together as Kenyans. You and I may disagree in the future, just like I'll disagree with some sentiments from my well-meaning contrymen here at KK. The trick is to disagree with respect and with reason. When all is said and done, we'll all wind up living within the borders of one nation. Let's make it a better, civil nation.

Sam Okello

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 10: 59 and others,

Eti Vikii gray haired. That is an insult to gray haired folks (the epitome of wisdom).
Didn't Vikii mention 1988 as the year he 'faced the knife'-now do the math to estimate his true age. You will realize he was still nyonyaring when a number of people here were already adults. So, kindly ignore his rants and concentrate on constructive comments.

Anonymous said...

b-carotene do not be unfair to urxInc because both you and I know that most cases of discrimination in Kenya revolves around service delivery both in private and the public sector. It is a fact that Kenyans are more united during social events/in grief that affects us all but on the contrary more disjointed when it comes to receiving/deriving benefits. This is a reality that we need to tackle if detribalizing the country is to be achieved.

It is therefore imperative to say that we only need laws to guide our co-existence but not to force us to like each other as you put it. As long as there are tougher laws then I believe I will not face any form of discrimination, let alone what feelings anybody has against my tribal affiliation will cause me any harm.

Vikii said...

11.40, I faced the knife when I was 41. Even Raila, the man you adore and respect faced it when he was in Norway in 1991. I think he was 46 or smething like that. And that's just a rumour. Nobody knows the truth.

So get it calculated. Yeah 'do the math'.

b-carotene said...

Ok. So calling people adui, fisi etc during an election campaign and whipping up emotions that is service delivery?
I'm done with this. For sure.

@11:41 am, I truly appreciate your lecture and shall forthwith refrain from being unfair to UrXlnc, such is the strength of his name as is my commitment to not being unfair. Am I required to apologize as well?

Anonymous said...

Ai Vikii.

I'm tickled...let me calm down before I do the math. What was Raila doing in Norway in 1991?

heheheee.

Vikii said...

That's a good question. I have been asking that myself. I will surely tell you when they give me the answer.

Vikii said...

My guess however is that he had gone there to be ushered to manhood, away from marauding communal gangs that consider that a little terrifying. Looking for safety, I guess.

UrXlnc said...

b-carotene 11:58, anon 11:41

appreciate the civility

b-carotene, just to be clear. politicians all the time try to appeal to emotions of the electorate all the time so as to be elected. it is most of the time ugly, stereotyped and in many case plain distatestful. alongside those fisi, adui comments, add, the kuku, pumbavu, knife comments that appealed to the other side (and still being played above). its up to us as the electorate to start walking out of public function in protest when they throw such comments. but truth is they get elected for those very comments and not service delivery

the service delivery part comes after they are in office and start lording it over the govt technocrats and civil servants.

am not offended and certainly no call for any apology, we are discussing different perspectives on national issues here.

Anonymous said...

I know and believe we can detribalize Kenya. But first we have to send all the grey haired men home. We need to elect young visionary leaders who will steer us to this goal.

This is the best post in Kumekucha's history. Chris thanks for the excellent post.

Anonymous said...

Vikii,

Raila reminded folks like you not to doubt his manhood. If in doubt go ask Ida who will indeed confirm that he was a 'tough luo mohine' even before the 'Norway trip'.

Vikii said...

Oh,was he?

b-carotene said...

UrXlnp:
OK. A little circuitous but I see. Thank you.

papa plus said...

Kenyans and the gay presposition of fellow man's foreskin! I will never understand it. There should be a clause that states before you talk about another man's penis, you should state;
1. Your sex
2. admit that you are gay if you are a man talking about another man's penis.

C'mon, just come out of the closet already. Mboo ya Raila imekuwacha kila siku hulali unaota mboo ya Raila, unaimba mboo ya Raila...

Circumsicion does not quarantee manhood nor maturity.

Vikii said...

12.40, That sounds great. Absolutely philosophical!

Na ni nani alianza story ya mamboo? Si msee ameleta story yangu ya kukatwa na mii nikamuwahi example ya msee anajulikana Kenya yote. Was just trying to prove that so many grey haired men were cut even after 1988.

Anyway you are entitled to your opinion, just like me.

Anonymous said...

Vikii, at 41 was it not painful?

Vikii said...

12.49,A little bit. Nobody said it was gonna be easy. All they said was it was gonna be worth it.

Anonymous said...

Your post suggests that hate makes the world go round , with that said then you must mean that without hate the world would stop , meaning we would all be dead.Hate just like other human emotions like , love , jelousy are compulsory and anyone who claims not to harbour them is living a lie, mandela hated the white men for raping his country that is why he wanted them out of power , we all hated moi and that is why his pet project was still born .My point is there is positive hate and negative hate.Havent we seen cases of potent and dangerous love , maen or women killing for the very thing they believed gave them life "LOVE"?

Anonymous said...

Vikii, what do you mean it is worth it?

Anonymous said...

anon @12:53, you say there's positive and negative hate. Why then don't we take the positive hate and let it move Kenya forward. Positive hate will ensure there's no hurt caused among wananchi. Let's start today with positive hate.

Vikii said...

12.55,I am enjoying this conversation. That's what they said. I did not ask what they meant. I said; "Let's do it, why not?"

Anonymous said...

Honestly, Kibaki should come out of his closet and help heal Kenya's tribal warfare. He needs to start by forgiving himself for the horrific events of the post-election period. And then Raila should be next in line. Then Kikuyus should be sacked from most posts they hold in civil service and be replaced with able men and women from other tribes. The sacked kikuyus should be sent home with a retirement package that should sustain them during their lifetime. Then we'll have peace in Kenya.

Anonymous said...

Vikii, why are you talking dicks!!!. Let's talk hate! Let's make this talk, positive hate and see how Kenya can benefit from it.

UrXlnc said...

vikii, why you misleading this forum bro, :-)

a few weeks back you were 25 looking for girls/women age bracket 26 to don't remember what your upper limit was. can you give us the secret for the jump to 41 and why you deliberately derailing discussion bwana? Tusker @ work, perhaps?

Anonymous said...

Once upon a time there was a country we all loved. Once upon a time there were a people in a country who lived in peace, love and unity. Why can't we bring back the nyayo days. These were the days of free milk in Kenyan schools. We had no hate amongst us. All we knew was fuataring nyayo.

I hope we can fuata Nyayo and avoid hating each other just based on tribe.

Vikii said...

1.06, I am not as keen to talk dicks as you think. If you have noticed, I am just answering questions or fighting accusations of being unwise, whinny, young (not grey haired), gay and so forth.

Urxlnc, I hear you. But look at it this way; Have I not tried my best to be as good-natured as possible in answering some of these questions?

I gave my opinion about hate. That it was wrong for people to preach water when they take wine. Some Maragoli women from god-knows where responded with their usual interesting statements and I kept quiet. I maintained my cool. I went ahead and quoted a very wise statement from Kalamari and people started attacking me. They talked about my grey hair, my date with the knife, my sexuality, etc and all I have been doing is either answering or clarifying (with real life examples). Put differently, people should not ask stupid questions if they cant take stupid answers.

Otherwise, I respect you and I respect your thgoughts immensely, Urxlnc, I do. It is just a pity that we also have dunderheads in the same forum and we cannot totally ignore them. We have to make them feel their presence is appreciated. And that's all I'm doing--Catering to the needy!

Anonymous said...

Vikii, was sex better before 1988 or after? In my calculation if you faced the knife at the age of 41 in 1988, then that makes you 61 today. DO YOU STILL HAVE SEX? or you need extra help (viagra) to rise up to the occassion.

Anonymous said...

Vikii,

Can you ask Kibaki to preach positive hate? It's like positive jealousy which enhances competition and the end result is positive outcome.

kalamari said...

Shaddy. Yes. A new constitution must be extremely representative. And by that I do not mean it should represent political leaders i.e. making sure that each region gets equal seats in govt. or parastatals. What I'm saying is that it should represent the common man from every corner. It must vehemently protect Kamangu the cobbler the same way it must also protect Kimunya of Grand Regency. Independence of the judiciary is a start.

Kwale. I agree. Hate, at least the Kenyan version, has fermented after years of arrogant intentional institutional marginalization of every community. Reprieve depends on who is president.

Vikii. C'mon, not really the best…..but here's one just for you; a bitch/whore is an extremely attractive woman who sleeps with all your friends but never you.

UrxInc. In most instances, even the manager cannot fire those 'powerful' connected bank tellers impeding others to serve those they perceive as cronies. If one is extremely rich, why cant they send the maid/driver to pay the electric bill…rather than display their importance by skipping the queue. The Kenyan arrogance has colonial roots. Talk of 'Mkubwa'. What of the Moi days when Kale messengers drove beemers and had two maids in a one bedroom flat…one for cooking, the other for washing his grey uniform.

Anonymous said...

Anon@1.36 It is not vikii's work to ask Kibaki to do anything since you have as much right to ask him anything as vikii.

As for vikii, he is one of these people who will always be on the opposite side even the discussion requires levelheadedness such as the gist of this post. Our society is diverse and people like him help to spice up the dialogue. My only concern is that his route may help breed more dissidents like himself.

kalamari said...

And what is this nonsense about positive hate? Should we hate Hitler because he killed millions of Jews? No. In fact we should love him for allowing us to see the hate and inhumanity in him. Up to that point, we all incorrectly thought that all human beings are born with the innate feeling of love and togetherness.

Hitler blew that dream out of the water.

Anonymous said...

Kalamari - Having a new constitution will not be a panacea to all our problems because the society will keep on evolving and new laws will be needed to respond to newer challenges.

Let us take the case of the US where mostly news laws are enacted to respond to new challenges in the society but in the same breath,our country is pathetic because everything is controlled by the house business committee (a proxy of the executive) making it difficult for individual bills to see the light of the day. May be what we need is to re-define the role of parliamentary committees with regard to the legislation process. It is much easier to use interest groups to lobby these committees for a new legislation on a matter of public concern rather than waiting for cabinet policy documents which have no immediate gain to you and me.

Vikii said...

1.34, sex has been better in the post '88 era. I feel good about it and that enhances the passion. A higher self esteem if you like. About whether I still have sex, yes i do. But I have a partner, the mother of my children. Kwa hivo kaa kando.

1.36, I do not have Kibaki's phone number. You wanna pass it on?

Kalamari, I know who a whore is. Nichole, my next door neighbour is one. But who knows, I am not losing hope.

1.47, yours is not a factual statement. I dont like being on the opposite side of any debate. I like being in the centre. I am a centrist.

2.02, Kenya has had more constitutional ammendments since 1980 than any other country on this planet.

Anonymous said...

you can not force anybody to stop hatting,like or love you,but you can set laws and institution to stop him from lynching you.Martin luther king Jr

Anonymous said...

HOTEL RWANDA is a joke
it has been contested (in court as fake)

watch that film by the then commander of the UN force- ithink its called "shaking the Devils hand".also " Somethings in April"
These two have not been widely circulated-they show "what the west" is all about.They raped Rwanda, but came in to help very late!
these two films are scary.They need those with strong hearts

Anonymous said...

You cant wipe tribalism from peoples mind, but we can set laws that make tribalism illegal

kalamari said...

anon @ 2.02PM. The US constitution has been amended 27 times.....since the 1700s.

Good ink on paper never fades.

Anonymous said...

Kalamari- having new set of laws does not necessarily mean a constitutional amendment. I agree with you that the US may have amended their only 27 times in the history of the country but they come up with new sets of laws every time which are responsive to their current societal needs. The problem with Kenya is that our grey-haired leaders are only interested in making fundamental constitutional changes that have continued to water down the first version we had at independence.

Tell me how many good legislations the previous and the current government have come up with that are as a result of the evolutions in our society except for the recent bills responding to post-election violence or the children's act that met elaborate opposition because legislatures thought that they would be asked to pay alimony for kids they birth out of wedlock. The irony is that we still have to rely on the Justice ministry for such critical legislation something that we can change if parliamentary committees are initiated into the whole legislation process.

The proposed new constitution will need to have a provision that all amendments must be validated by a referendum.

Anonymous said...

Chris,

Thanks for this brilliant post. And Chris, what does your new term Detribalize mean?

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:47,

Take note. Detribalize is Sam Okello's coinage. Ask him where he got that from.

papa plus said...

No you got me wrong Vikii. I just feel that it is strange for men to discuss other men's genitalia at length. I can count on one hand how many times I have discussed genitalia with my male friends; twice I think. Once we were talking about circumsicion and apparently there is a tribe in Uganda that take off almost 3/4 of the skin and then scrap the underlying tissue so the men have scar tissue the entire length of the shaft. The second thime i was unwrapping an old cigar and my friend commented that it looed like his shaft because he is in his 50s, to which I replied that he had gotten a lot of good service from it!

So to see guys talk about Raila's penis, or their own for such a long length of time is unusual in my case. I have heard gay men discuss other men's shafts in depth...hench the gay reference. Anyway, it is of great interest to them, no?

Anonymous said...

Always show a gentle spirit to the ones you meet, For an anglel may be the next person you greet...

Hebrews 13:2

Let's stop the hate today

Anonymous said...

Here's how to stop hate. Let's abolish mother tongues. Let's speak Kiswahili in every home. And let's teach our youngsters only one language...Kiswahili. They can learn English during their Kindergarten years.

Vikii said...

Papa plus, what grants you the right to talk about penises with Ugandans and denies me or anybody else for that matter the same right to talk about the same subject with fellow Kenyans.

There are also tribes in Kenya whose approach to circumcision is crazier than the Ugandans'. Some choose to forever live with their foreskins and others choose to cut clits off their girls. It's a crazy crazy world, man, I am telling you!

Anonymous said...

See, hate rules the world...I have to borrow Sam's phrase. Read Eastandard.net. Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture have been sent home indefinitely after a rampage broke out on campus.

Hate

They, the students complain the food is too expensive and you ask why?

Hate

They may be feeling the US vs THEM

Hate

Kibaki needs to introduce positive hate to save Kenya.

Hate

Our schools have been out on rampage as high school students have been burning their dormitories and labs and you ask why?

Hate!!!

Let's preach forgiveness now.

UrXlnc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
UrXlnc said...

vikii @1:33 - read you loud and clear.

anon: detribalize is actually a word but not sure the entire context is required

kalamari @ 1:44 - we had touched on that a little while back and you nailed it when you said kenyans are ready for impartial corruption free service delivery but lack avenues and support to enforce it.

overall, reading comments above its evident that most of us do not condone discrimination and willing to detribalize. but the greatest achievement of this post is that the comments have been very impressive.

kudos Sam and kudos to the contributors. this shows we can all change or work together even within the inept laws and leadership.

Anonymous said...

urxInc I agree with you that we all agreed here that our country needs to be detribalized. The remaining area where there is still divergence of opinion is how to go about this process. More dialogue is required on the approach.

Anonymous said...

papa plus,

what makes you think only guys would have such conversations. Go back to the comments and be the judge.

Anonymous said...

Chris,

Thanks for this post. I hope we can start today by providing healing to Kenyans. Why don't we start right now, right here on Kumekucha.

Why don't we organize Kumekucha readers to spread this gospel of detribalize of Kenya?

Chris, you be the group leader. Let's see how we can save our motherland. So we can love each other and start seeing good in those who speak a different language.

Thanks a lot Chris for this forum and to you Sam Okello, kudos for the excellent post.

Anonymous said...

IS THIS WHAT SOME PEOPLE CALL WORKING HARD???

MP: Kenya Railways sale bigger scandal than Goldenberg
Published on 06/08/2008

Allegations of an incapacitated company irregularly registered to take over the operations of Kenya Railways forced Prime Minister Raila Odinga to step in with an assurance.

Ababu Namwamba (Bundalang’i, ODM) stoked the embers when he raised the issue of a company he claimed was put in place to concession Kenya Railways under the guise of enhancing efficiency.

The MP claimed that the company, Rift Valley Railways (RVR), entered into a 25-year concession agreement with Kenya Railways with only Sh100,000 share capital.

Raila said he had convened a meeting with Ugandan and RVR officers today over the matter.

The Government will then give a comprehensive statement after two weeks.

Namwamba tabled documents giving particulars of directors and the process that brought RVR into existence to authenticate his claims.

"RVR is linked to high-ranking officials, one of whom sits at the State law Office, where he influenced irregular registration of this company," claimed Namwamba.

But Transport Minister Chirau Ali Mwakwere said everything was above board.

internal disputes

He said the ruling was about internal disputes of shareholders and should not be used as a benchmark.

Ikolomani MP Bonny Khalwale put the minister to task on why RVR was allowed to take over KR before paying the precondition fee of $3 million.

Mwakwere said the money was paid 45 days after commencement of operations.

Charles Kilonzo (Yatta, ODM-K) stirred tempers when he said the 29 members sitting in the concessionaire’s board were from one community.

"It pains to see what has happened to KR. RVR has been given to one community. When is the Government going to repossess the railway?" he asked.

However, Sports Assistant Minister Kabando wa Kabando and MP Mithika Linturi said it was unfair to link individuals with a community.

Anonymous said...

PM Raila cracks whip over Railways deal.

Meanwhile Duckie ...zzzzzzz on the SH fence, and Wiper heads the Beijing cheering squad.

Anonymous said...

Kumekucha bloggers, we've had a healthy discussion on this blog today. Let's keep it issue-oriented. Thanks again and let's keep it right here on Kumekucha.

Anonymous said...

Where's Taabu? Where's Chris?

Anonymous said...

anon @ 5:45, Chris is in bed asleep by his beautiful wife. No hate.

Taabu is whisking Tusker. And his wife is by his side. Again no hate.

And why worry where Chris and Taabu are?

I don't think that's any of your business.

Let's discuss the issue at hand, detribalizing Kenya.

Let's start with Nyanza Province. Let's move some luo into Muranga. And then let's move some Kalenjins deep into Kiambu. And then let's move some Kikuyu's to Kanyamkago.

Deal?

This will stop hate!

Anonymous said...

I have laughed my head off this evening. A guy orders a subway, he drives home and discovers he got a wrong subway.

The guy calls 911.

Here's the conversation:

911: hello how may I help you sir?
Sir: I ordered a Sandwhich and they gave me a wrong one.

Hate gone sour?

Anonymous said...

I guess we all need to come clean of this hate issue. Most of us hate Kikuyus because we feel they are the only tribe enjoying the fruits of indepence.

Kikuyus also need to stop the arrogance.

Luos need to stop expecting free lunch...

Kalenjins need to stop expecting more..

Luyhas need to stop eating, and not producing.

Then we can say bye bye hate.

Anonymous said...

The solution to detrabalize Kenya is to have a new constitution. Phil and Kalamari have this on spot. Let's stop punditing and instead lobby our elected officials to do their jobs. We should demand that the campaigns be issue-driven and not tribal coronations.

Anonymous said...

anon @ 6:49, I say amen to your comment.

Goodnight Hate!

Welcome Forgiveness!

God bless Kenya and it's peoples.

Anonymous said...

Charles.Nairobi.
Quite right,they said east or west home is best!we WERE NEVER going to find any love in another country.for starters the system introduced by the establishments was for them not FOR US,IRONICALLY t Africans continue to suffer and live in poverty.There is no Equality anywhere and we turn a blind eye instead of taking matter head on BECAUSE WE WORSHIP EVERYTHING WHITE, WE do what they do?
Fake facts were knocked in by the colonial predecessors,WE CANNOT GIVE UP OUR TRIBES no matter how hard we try,CANT WORK, YET we speak IN their languages english and french fluently but their STRUCTURES cannot work in a traditional African setting! NEVER!
The structures must change to accomodate AFRICANISM.Remember your an African!

Slave TRade STILL THRIVES, theres a spot in Kibera where children are being FATTENED UP AND SOLD TO THE WEST.WHO CAN WE TALK TO ABOUT THIS?ITS fake childrens home!

GOOD POST SAM....ONE DAY WILL OUR CHILDREN'S CHILDREN ALSO BLAME US FOR NOT STANDING UP!

Anonymous said...

Charles.Nairobi.
Sam.you got to be tough if you want to survive on the world, only the strong survive!if you are a true revolutionary where people talk day in day out....in africa we say if the mother turns everytime the child cries she'll never get anything done!
Grow some thick skin,as long as you got your tie and suit live!
We are used to prejudice and hate you got to know how to twist it...whining about a woman turning off a telly.....?lets not act like them...they'd do the same thing whine and cry all day..Africa.Hold on and be your strongest.

Anonymous said...

This is the best and only reasonable post you have ever made. If you were writing like this before the election I think a lot of lives would have been saved. I am shocked and I hope this is a true change of heart from the genuine hatred that has been and continues to be spewed within these Kumekucha pages especially before the election. These pages have been a true factory of hatred all through. I know that any soul can be saved however rotten it might have been and I truly hope that you are finally on the path to genuine patriotism as opposed to haters and seekers of traffic to your blog. Very good post and please keep that spirit up.

Anonymous said...

The above comment is mine. I had not noticed that it was a guest post by Okello. Sorry Chris for giving you credit for it. I know you cant and will never write such an inspiring and balanced article being the hater you are. Sorry Okello and once again, nice post.

Anonymous said...

Who cares anyway. you all need to leave us kikuyus alone. we don't need anybody to survive. We can survive on our own. what's this yupping and whining that kikuyus are tribalists? you can't force me to like a kalenjin or a Luo. I simply don't like them. We do not belong to same class. our culture is different. so mind your business I mind mine. it's not that I come to beg you for food or shelter. Go love your other tribesmen, i don't need your love. punks!

Anonymous said...

anon @ 12:59, what's wrong with you. We want forgiveness not hate. We want peace not hate.

We fear hate.

I hope you get this.

Anonymous said...

anon 12:59 pm

and with a stupid attitude like yours you wonder why the rest of Kenya hates Kikuyus.... not to mention all the other mad ills exhibited by your lot, from hijacking, theft across Kenya, and the world (yes, the world, look at any criminal news relating to theft or fraud in the diaspora and count how many times it's a Kikuyu ha ha). And in any case, if you are so self sufficient why do you fear Majimboism? unless you love yourself so much you don't want to be confined to only your own people? Maybe deep down you know you won't be able to guard yourself from yourself.

Instead of sounding so arrogant, why hadn't you better seek ammends for your ways and learn to respect other nations in Kenya, and see how much better things will be if you stop thinking you are so much better. Please, all you sound like is a typical Kikuyu forever hussling and yet still proud of that shameless behaviour. I know there are wonderful nice Kikuyu people out there, but it's loud and empty debes like you that aren't helping matters and make the rest of Kenya (and some parts of the world where your tribe is getting a reputation worse than Nigerians used to have) hate ALL Kikuyus, which is of course, unfair on the innocent ones. Shame on you.

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