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Two quick issues.
Firstly there are readers who have said that they are having problems making posts. Kindly give me details of the exact nature of the problem, because nobody blocks comments here. Another option when you get problems posting, is to send your comments via email to the email address umissedthis (at) yahoo.com
Secondly one of our prominent commentators made a comment yesterday, which I am surprised was not challenged. He said of his preferred candidate; “You cannot corrupt the incorruptible.”
He’s a good guy that I like and I’m sure he was just getting excited and emotional as I often do myself, because obviously the man in question is NOT incorruptible.
Tomorrow I carry some interesting details on new revelations that raise even more questions, about the man who at the moment stands the highest chances of being president. Don’t miss it. It’s all happening right here at Kumekucha.
it seems that i missed the MASSACARE that took place ever since Thursdays posts here at Kumekucha
ReplyDeletei am still trying to catch up, but let me say we must never cease to walk down that weather-beaten and well-trodden path of reason, logic and sense in debate; strong reasons brought forth in an articulate and coherent manner are arguments that win friends and sometimes end wars.
However, arguments that are void of any strong points, and are simply a quick rebuttal and cheap poke at anyone of the brave commentators who use their real names (my real name IS Luke thank you) just to call them stupid or whatever-i say such should be confined to your homes or girlfriends/husbands/wives/families-we are in a public forum here, if you can't hold your own without resorting to base name calling and cheap attacks on the private lives of people then go back to the school of “Someni Vijana, Muongeze Pia Bidii, Mwisho Wa Kusoma, Mtapata Kazi Nzuri Sana.”
strong reasons please-emotion and makelele mengi wacheni nyumbani tafadhali. base name calling and mudslinging leave it to NSIS
IT'S INTEGRITY NOT THE ECONOMY STUPID
I personally chose not to respond to Phil to avoid getting narrow in the debate. I will however ask the question I have been asking here and I do not want an answer, just keep it to yourself. Does anybody believe RAila Odinga would be associated with less than three major scandals if he had joined government in 1987 like Kalonzo Musyoka for example? Or in 1963 like Mwai Kibaki? I will not fool u, but please dont fool me too, u know the answer to that question. I know Raila excites passion (I was in the same camp with him in the plebicite campaigns in '05), but please call a spade a spade when u come across one. A spoon should uniquely remain a spoon.
ReplyDeleteThe issue is not for us to discuss the person of Raila Odinga or any other presidential candidate, no. The important issue is how do we get the best presidential candidate into power? When u tell me that person is Raila I beg to differ. The era of strongmen was the 80's and 90's. We should now strive to continue with or to get a more democratic leadership than the one we have today. Attempting to take us back to the 80's is completely unacceptable.
This brings me to the issue of John Githongo. How is John Githongo a better leader than MAina Kiai? Dont get me wrong....Githongo is a man of impeccable integrity, but unless he has declared he is running for president, then he is not worth of any undue consideration. There are many Githongos and Yash PAl Ghais living in Kenya and we should also talk about those.
I for one do not believe Mwangi Kiunjuri was serious about his allegations against Raila but I am 100% convinced that Raila has corrupt tendencies. I rarely forget stuff and I remember kumekucha saying here that Raila was given preferential treatment in the mollasses saga by Moi in exchange of helping in the cover up in the Ouko question.(And this was due to my unwavering questioning about the role of Raila in the mollasses deal) Kumekucha went on to conclude that Ouko's blood is gonna haunt Raila forever. Those are not my words.
Go and bring those deals on. Unearth any deals where KAlonzo, Uhuru and Kibaki are implicated and we will form informed decisions. Bring them on but dont witch-hunt.
Luke, I 100% agree with you. There’s twenty million ways of diminishing a chap’s ego other than resorting to name calling..
ReplyDeleteIt is precisely for that reason that we (you and I only) should join hands and demand that anyone throwing around words such as PUMBAVU must vacate the house on the hill.
Oh, and Chris, I was extremely conflicted when I read of you raising such a wonderful family with the help of Madam….. and later on reading about you getting your hair twisted by Nyatanga in Obich… I was mightily relieved when I realized it was Sue.
Sue; since it’s highly likely that one 26 year old lady of indescribable beauty will be locked away in the darkest and deepest part of a padlocked closet when I visit a certain jamaa, would you be kind enough to describe, in great detail and picturesque words, the two women who did your hair? There’s something about two women doing something together to another person that intrigues me.
Phil; Do you know Nyatanga? If you do, can you explain to us why she has gals wearing red t-shirts instead of, exclusively, the one under your shirt this very minute? This is inexcusable. Seriously though, you must have a Raila T-shirt and a brand new shiny nyundo. Is it legal to walk around with those tools when you clearly do not practice the trade?
Vikii; forget about Jose or Essien developing talent or anything else in Africa. The Kalonzo Musyoka Foundation is enough…..didn’t you know that once they finish planting trees in a dense forest, we are next?
Derek; Do you realize that following nyayo ya Vikii will get you stung by very bad bees?? The type of angry Africanized bees that leave you bleeding and swollen on your ‘not so Kalonzo-like’ face.
Taabu; Now that you completed reading the fifth edition of Webster’s Dictionary, you must get the sixth. Did you that the word ‘google’ is now a real word? Grandiosely speaking that is.
PKW- Why was I certain that you would eventually want to know where the 300M is stashed?
MB- Will you shed, explicitly, some light on the life and times of those ‘big people’. We don’t care for the nitty gritty, some simple stuff like is it totally, totally totally(man), totally, totally true that Ouko commited suicide…then set himself on fire???
Adhis; If you don’t take care I will get married soon. Hii mambo ya kurandaranda nilikwambia uwache.
That said, it’s Saturday, I’m hang-overed, bored and looking for attention.
Chris, thank you for noting that, I believe that other people in this forum are pushed aback by a simple fact of getting responses that border on personal, especially if it has to do with Phil on Raila Odinga.
ReplyDeleteI have also chosen to avoid any comment since Phil told me that he doubts my knowledge. But when I say that some of the people around Raila Odinga are thuggish, and people I know by name, character and ‘trade’ I will draw comments not fit for dialogue. Like I had a piece on the August 1982 coup and felt that it would rub some people the wrong side and never posted it.
To me, Phil has a personal touch that ‘he advises Raila on his personal assistant’ and has a swig of lager with him, then it is a different ball-game. On the CORRUPTIBLE claim, I believe that by holding a meek community into Kanu in 2001 was in itself a corruption. Using the same powers to silence James Orengo and sitting him under a tree on his way to a constituency he represents (his home – birth place), the ideals that this blog champions for, is corruption. Worse, it is the corruption of the mind when one is used to silence a fellow MP whose only mistake is having a different view of the status quo and being steadfast.
Raila Odinga is the first and only man to have used his community to raise cash in the name of Kisumu Molasses Plant and cheated them and then, as Vikii says (I also read it here), silenced on the Robert Ouko death with the monopoly bid. (Not the Community that raised cash under one Eng Odeny Ngure and Eng Olali). That is corruption.
Files disappearing at the Ministry of Energy, that is corruption and fighting a poor Argwings Odera after he raised doubts about the Sondu Miriu project is corruption.
Further corruption is when, hypothetically, it is said that candidates pay into a kitty to be ‘imposed’ on the electorate. That is corrupting the electorate.
On the national podium, I would ask one question and let any blogger tell me of a deal that that government of Mwai Kibaki has been involved in. drAnglo Leasing, this was done in the dusk years of the Moi and has totally nothing to do with Kibaki regime.
David Mwiraria was not a minister in Moi government and continuity demand that the elected government takes over the running of a government and in this case, the victims of the deal are different people altogether.
Tell me any wrongdoing that Kalonzo Musyoka has been involved in. I read this week (here) that Musyoka’s Foundation was being supported by the government for one reason or another. On the same line, I believe that we should also argue that the government should stop supporting any developmental initiatives in Langata lest people argue that Raila is being corrupted or a project in Sabatia should be stopped because Mudavadi will be seen as being on the government side.
I feel that our politics should be mature to accommodate events like ‘imagined corruption’ that people talk of when referring to Hayer Bishan Construction Company in Kisumu. I don’t have details on the Hayer Bishan winning a contract to build the Kisumu Bus Park, but rumour-mills have it.
I'm an undecided voter but it looks like it's Raila all the way. Opinion polls (scientific from steadsman and non-scientific from FM stations), croweds acclamation, consensus etc points to him.
ReplyDeleteI think Whether he is innocent or guilty, a plan to investigate him at this time might end up making him more popular. His stories will dominate the media more.
And remember some author called him an enigma. The least thing you wanna give him is wide media coverage. This is the advice I would give to Mutahi Ngunyi and Kalonzo's strategist, Prof. Makau Mutua.
I forgot this:- Hanging out with corrupt people like Henry Kosgey, William Ole Ntimama, William Rutto, Musalia Mudavadi and some of the worst human right perpetrators like Noah Arap Too (CID Director used to plant Pambana on people), makes you corrupt. There are tens in ODM who are too unclean to stand for election.
ReplyDeleteMum used to tell me – “Next time I see you hanging out with that group, you will go to a boarding school” or a corporal punishment that remains engraved in my brains. One day, a cop made his way to our house and I was only lucky that an alibi saved me.
Simple, birds of a feather flock together!
Chris, sometime I don't envy the position you often find yourself. How could I given the schooled arguments planted? Man your readers are smart alec who rise to logicaly back any of their takes ablbeit with a tinge of palatable bias to suit the eventual goal.
ReplyDeleteAnd there begins your hard task of agreeing and sometimes even falling head long into traps of replacing the head with the heart. Well that brings out the mortal you and how refreshing.
Vikii please sambasia Kalamari some sparhling water. I fear the chap has no blood stream this weekend instead his system can ignite kiberiti.
That said everybody, and I mean ALL, aspiring prezzos must come clean. All posts on them underlies INTERGRITY (Luka style) and Ceasar's wife equivalent or being beyond reproach. We cannot fight anybody's war. Kiunjuri is only doing what our politicians are best known for. But you dare not point your fingers at him and abroggate yourself the Psychiatrist role lest you become a quack. Nobody fancies that label, or do you?
Agwambo and all his ilk must carry their own cross and a ready hammer to be nailed is they fail the test. Slanting facts or selective amnesia cleverly aimed to paint on ein bad light as you pamba your horse is pure dishonesty, ama Derek? Being a carpet bagger is the nastiest of honourable jobs.
Vikii your question must be answered without blinkers. Unfortunately social scientists and epidemiologists contracting counterfactual (what if) models often suffer the curse of untestable assumptions. All the same causal modeling remain controversdial unlike standard stats associational models. But hey assumptions forms the foundations of every progress. Hope we keep it objective and not drown ndugu Phil, we need him, don't we Chris?
Mr. Anonymous you are wrong when you call Makau Mutua Kalonzo's stategist. I will just tell u that the fact that Makau wa Mutua is Kamba doesnt make him a Kalonzo supporter. I know u r thinking of the attacks he threw to Raila last month but then u forget that makau Mutua has been a strong opponent of tribalism (Remember Moi's time?) all along. Raila was trying to gain sympathy by using his tribe's name----That is what angered Makau Mutua.
ReplyDeleteFYI he has written a hundred and one anti Kalonzo articles. I will tell you that KAlonzo spent the whole of 2005 and a better part of 2006 to woo Makau wa Mutua to his side. Kalonzo was shopping for a candidate for the vacant Kitui Central seat and Makau Mutua flatly rejected the offer. He maintained that he wants to be neutral and penned off with the rider that none of the candidates on offer merited the presidency of Kenya including Kibaki.
Just thought I should let u know.
Chris, I think it is very unfair for you to label me a Raila ‘worshipper’. That is an outright insult. It is even more unfortunate to call upon your readership to challenge my comments, as if they did not read it themselves or as if you fear doing so yourself. Just imagine Chris, the Speaker of Parliament asking sitting members of parliment from government side to challenge the sentiments of another member on opposition side – doesn’t it seem a little ridiculous? It certainly doesn’t make sense to me, especially in a forum that professes free expression like Kumekucha. The basis of your original post alleging Raila’s corrupt deals was adopted from another source and I believe you cannot stand by that story if you cannot guarantee authenticity of the contents. In any case, if we have a little patience, you can be sure that Raila will be in parliament this week to respond to ‘Honourable’ Kiunjuri and I hope you will publish his response too. I have supported many of your proposals here at Kumekucha, but I wasn’t called a Chris ‘worshipper’, was I?
ReplyDeleteChris another thing, in the post you refer to, I asked numerous legitimate questions regarding Kiunjuri’s intentions, personal conduct, government and parliamentary procedure but you ignore all that and instead choose to highlight the fact that I said you cannot corrupt the incorruptible. I wonder why? I agree each and every one of us, including Kumekucha himself, have their own skeletons in the closets and I dare not challenge whatever evidence it is you might be holding against Raila, but I will wait and read it like the rest and comment thereafter.
I am glad Vikii was smart enough to realize Kiunjuri was only misusing parliamentary privilege to drag Raila (and Ayako’s) name in mud because they are the biggest threat to Kibaki’s second term plans. And it is also not lost to us that he chose a convenient time when both these guys were not present to defend themselves!
Kalamari - Of course, I know Nyartanga chain of salons. I know the matriarch and admire her entrepreneurial skills. I think she runs the biggest chain of salons in Nairobi (apart from Kenyatta Market) that specialize in braiding hair. Sue is truly the one of the few people who have proven to be mwenyeji wa Kibera.
Derek, let my comments not suppress your freedom to express your feelings. I think I posted my regrets to have offended any of you. If you didn’t accept them, then I am sorry there is nothing more I can do to appease you. I shall not stop supporting Raila merely because you claim Raila is corrupt and has dictorial tendencies. But I guess you are within your rights not to vote for him whatsoever. That’s your democratic right. Also, I will e-mail to Chris a list of questionable projects undertaken by government since 2002. Even as we speak, there are those who are signing corrupt projects as they are not sure if they will be in power come January 2008! I hope Chris will publish it. I will also prove to you that Anglo Leasing is 100% a Kibaki government project. A contract is conceived when signatures and seals are appended. PS Mwaura signed these Anglo Leasing documents after getting verbal approval from the likes of Mwiraria, Awori and Murungaru. There is no way this regime can pass the buck on Anglo Leasing. It is even more unfortunate that the Kibaki presidency is a FRAUD in itself. The people serving in his GNU government, if you ask me, are not the people who we voted for in 2002. Why did he not have the guts to dissolve parliament and call for a general election so the ‘people can decide?’
Thanks Taabu, you have a kind way of telling Chris, ‘No thank you’.
Vikii,
ReplyDeleteProf. Makau Mutua is a member of Kalonzo's think tank abroad. I'm not faulting him for that and certainly I don't fault him for being a Kamba. You do not have to bring a tribal card into this. We need people who can fight ethnicity in Kenya. Makau is trying but my point was that any scheme (good or bad) that gives Raila a lot of media coverage might end up making him more popular. That's all
Phil U still owe me a nyam chom. I have gone every imaginable height to try to get u to view situations in a more rounded way:
ReplyDeleteIf you are not desperate to paint other people dirtier than Raila then something is wrong somewhere. If u honestly believe the GNU is a fraudulent arrangement, then that adds to Raila's fast growing list of shoddy deals. He joined government in 2001 despite being rejected by the people in 1997. Hope u will also agree with me that such an act is not only a 'FRAUD'when done by Kibaki but a 'HEROIC DEED' when done by Raila. U gotta stop these double standards dude.
Phil u can defend Raila the much u please but I will tell u one thing: Please stand by the truth. Dont cook scandals against Raila's opponents and dont defend theft. I know Raila can bring change but what kind of change?
Thanks for that one Anonymous. I cannot deny the new development coz I am not privy to it.
Am sorry for the tribal connection. I never meant to potray u in that light. Take it easy bro and have a nice day.
Vikii, I always stand by the truth and I havent cooked any scandals against Raila's opponents. If Kiunjuri stumbled upon ministry documents that he thinks smelt of corruption, why cant he use proper channels to get this properly investigated. As a senior member of cabinet, he is is a better position than any of us (including the people he is accusing) to get to the bottom of the oil deals in that he claims were cut during Raila and Ayako's time. At no time have I posted comments here to say Raila is guilty or innocent in this oil saga.
ReplyDeleteIf you have taken time to read Raila's biography, political credentials, recently launched presidential vision and have been following the fellows's public service record, then you must be knowing which changes he wants to bring. Especially those that successive governments (Kenyatta, Moi & Kibaki) have completely failed (ignored) to bring.
It is regrettable but sometimes, Kenyans wish that they should have been colonised longer, the mzungu didnt look at 'natives' from a tribal point of view. Systems used to work in their time.
PS. Vikii, I shall invite you to Kibera so you can attend one of Raila's Kamkunjis one of these sundays and you will understand why I comment the way I do. And, oh yes, we have tasty mbuzi ama ngombe chome in Kibera! Wacha kwanza siasa za ODM zi ive vizuri.