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Monday, December 08, 2008

To Avoid Acrimony On Waki, Here's The Way Forward

Big names are about to drop.

By now we all know that a pretty decent number of names are sealed in an envelop that Judge Waki submitted to the Hon. Kofi Anan. That the names are there is neither an indication of guilt nor a witch-hunt. What the judge is saying is that in the course of his hurried and time-pressed investigation, he reached the conclusion that there are some Kenyans who need to be further investigated because their names came up in relation to the funding and abetting of the post-election fracas. It is only fair that they be given a chance to defend themselves...and be cleared or convicted and punished for causing such a serious loss of life and property.

As one who has strongly called for a local tribunal, to preserve and strengthen our sovereignty and our nascent institutions, I'm gratified that President Kibaki and Prime Minister Odinga have found a formula to give our judicial system a stab at resolving this matter. I hope we all realize that the credibility of our nation is on the line here. Whoever is selected to lead this tribunal will need the full support and the goodwill of all Kenyans. We will follow closely how he/she leads the tribunal and decide whether the body will do Kenya proud or will embarrass us and set us on the demeaning path to the Hague.

Given the gravity of the charges the people who's names will drop face, it is time to agree on the way forward. This is important if we are to avoid unnecessary acrimony within our perpetually fractious parties and the nation in general.

This is what must be done:

1. Immediate and unconditional Resignation. This is the honorable thing to do. The ladies and gentlemen mentioned need to pave the way for effective and thorough investigations to take place. To achieve this, they must resign as a matter of principle. Their voluntary resignation will make their absence in Government palatable to their rowdy followers and avoid the impression of persecution of any group of people.

2. The Process Must be seen To Be Free And Fair. Kenyans will be watching very closely how this tribunal is handled. As sad as this is to say, there are thousands of Kenyans who lost their relatives and property and are still trapped in the unending cruelty of the IDP camps. Equally disturbing, there are Kenyans in refugee camps in Uganda who are too traumatized to even contemplate a return to Kenya. This is sad and unacceptable. To such people, this nation owes a credible tribunal, one that will fairly convict the culprits and fairly dispense justice. We must be sensitive to the fact that should this thing be perceived to be bungled, we'll have created an opportunity for our unscrupulous politicians to present themselves as martyrs to their gullible followers, who will seek vengeance and create a situation where animosity and grievance is recycled without end.

3. Outstanding Grievances Must Be Simultaneously Dealt With. I sense an inexplicable foot-dragging when it comes to matters related to land and the constitution. One year after the electoral fiasco how can we explain this slowness? Are we waiting to start handling these matters in the run up to the 2012 elections? We have to realize that by then Kenya will be too charged up for anything to be done effectively. So at this time, when we are in the mood for dealing with our problems head on, let's ruthlessly deal with the issues of land distribution and the unbalanced constitution. Waiting is an option we don't have.

4. The Hague Must Be Our Last Resort. Fellow Kenyans, going to the Hague will be one of the most humiliating things to happen to Kenya in recent memory. It will be a tacit admission of failure on our part, a statement to the world that we are incapable of handling our affairs. Even so, we must agree that if our local tribunal is seen to be failing, the ICC will have to step in. In the end, what we are saying as a nation is that we will no longer tolerate impunity.

5. Reconciliation Must Follow Punishment. Like most trials, the verdict of the tribunal...or God forbid, the ICC...will inevitably create animosity in the country. President Kibaki and Prime Minister Raila Odinga will have to move swiftly, literally hours after the verdict, to unify the nation. They will need to lead the nation to bury the past and see in the verdict a necessary cleansing, an atonement for the sins of the nation.

My fear, Fellow Countrymen, is that if we carelessly handle this tribunal, a perception that certain communities were targeted will emerge. That would be regrettable. Indeed, it would be better if we neither formed the tribunal nor went to the ICC if all we end up accomplishing is setting the stage for future animosities...that will lead to fresh antagonisms.

I pray for Kenya!


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58 comments:

Taabu said...

Sam,
You seem to possess endeless rounds of bullets to play Russian Roullette with Kenyan blood. I give it to you on CONSISTENCY in your political patch. All the plastic sovereignity you mouth are the hallmarks of political scoundrels masquarading as patriots.

Man you must have been weaned on five course siasa of yore which was perfected by drumming up some national hollow pride.

Look here Sam. All the local triburnal talk is a gimmick by politicians to save their ASSES at our expense. You won't get, it, will you dear Sam? Our politicians have never come together for anything objective. Please clear your nose and smell the blood, will you please?

Anonymous said...

Taabu,

You and Sam are bad twins. What i see is that everything is going Sam's way. Let us see, he wanted a tribunal he get a tribunal, he wanted sovernty, he get sovernty, so who is wining?

Anonymous said...

if u think an admission of failure is yet to to happen,you are mistaken.it actually happened way back in january /feb when we invited foreigners to handle the situation for us.a local tribunal is not the solution.we need to overhaul the entire constitution in line with the bomas draft.then,and only then shall we be able to face some people and tell them that the 20shs difference in the kaunga from rural and urban is not the packaging as they would like us to believe but hogwash!

Anonymous said...

We did not invite foreigners, they invited their damn selves. I think if Samo's advice is followed, all will be well.

Sam Okello said...

Taabu,

Thanks for your compliment on my consistency. Look, I've been calling for three things consistenlty. One is a local tribunal. As far as I know, we achieved consensus on that one. Second, which is tied to the first, is that we respect our nation's sovereignty. As you can see, the Europeans and the American diplomats who are always ready to shoot to the hills to tell us how to live our lives have been silenced by our relentless determination to chart the way forward on our own. I'm proud of this. The third thing I've been calling for is reconcilliation and forgiveness. As far as I know, the three top politicians in Kenya are now on record calling for the same. I'm still waiting for them to call for the grand reconcilliation party at Uhuru Park, where our cleargy will lead the way in planting peace and goodwill in the heart of all Kenyans. Again, if that's what you call consistency, I'm glad to accept your congratulatory messege to me.

Anonymous said...

only PNU were not keen on inviting foreigners since they were holding the instruments of power.remember poor Tutu and president'a cup of tea with agemate'Kuffuor!lets agree that there was no law and order in virtually the entire country,then we might appreciate the so called foreigner's input.look what mugabe is doing.incidentally hes now even asking the so called foreigners to assist cope with the situation!

Anonymous said...

The last thing Kenyans need is a tribunal that will be used by the politicians to cover up their role in the post election violence. I do not understand why Okelo has confidence in our judiciary.

Vikii said...

Sam, your "consistency" sometimes makes sense to me, but I think the reasons you have to not want the Hague are not convincing.

That said, let us all agree that whether we settle for a local tribunal or "the Hague" (I like Kenyans' buzz), the aim should be bringing to book ALL those who played a role in the chaos we witnessed. Let it not be about some vendetta games with eyes set on a smoother path to power because that will not happen.

For justice to be done, and to be seen to be done, we must demand that ALL whose names come up during the trials,MUST be subpoenaed by that tribunal/court. They must, just like the unlucky ones in Waki's list,appear before the tribunal/court and be tried. Allowing ourselves to be restricted by Waki's scope is simply not acceptable. And when you think about it, Kenyans are a very dishonest lot. We all know deep down in our hearts, that Waki's list(yeah, we know the names, courtesy of kumekucha) is not exhaustive, not even close. We know that the real masterminds of the chaos are not implicated and are indeed the ones lecturing us on the way forward. You do not have to be a genius to notice the gimmickry in implicating DEAD members of Parliament and leaving out their peers. Why then are we treating Waki's list as an authoritative document? Why do we always rush to close our eyes to the possibility of Waki (deliberately or otherwise) having left out bigger players in the violence? If William Ruto or whoever else, names anybody in his trial, they MUST appear before that tribunal as well--in the name of fairness. A trial that is limited to Waki's list is not even worth conducting. That would be another shoddy job.

So if Justice Waki's list is that sacred, let us use it as a basis for getting to the bottom of the matter. Let the proposed tribunal (or the ICC if you like) summon the Waki ten, explain to them the terms of the trial---'you are under oath, don't perjure, feel free to name your partners in crime and THEY WILL be subjected to the exact same process like you'. That's an undertaking the court needs to be impressed upon to make before we commence the trials. Otherwise, it is equally immoral for us as a nation to punish impunity selectively. I have always believed that people like William Ruto should be locked up in a tiny room and set on fire, but if the idea is to single him out, punish him for political reasons and leave everyone else with whom they did shameful things, then I am on his side. We cannot afford to be taken for a ride again, not this time!

That is why I now feel the best way would actually be the ICC. Inasmuch as I do not feel they are any more competent (I do not have any reason to feel so), I believe it would be a little harder for people not in Waki's list, but who are equally culpable, to use their positions of influence to shield themselves and thus circumvent justice. If we really want to get this thing done expeditiously, then we should be willing to commit our time. And our objectivity.

If any name comes up, even if it is that of the President, then we must walk the talk. We must continue our loud shouts. It is the moral thing to do, it is the fair thing to do, it is the right thing to do.

Anonymous said...

Vikii,

Okelo defends Kenya's sovereignty, what is unconvincing about that? I said Okelo was moon shining in darkness, now people like Vikii are begining to see sense in what he has been saying all along.

kalamari said...

Sam,

Please explain this to me if you can. Why do you find it so humiliating to recognize Kenya’s incompetence in handling issues such as the Waki report? I mean, our history is replete with evidence suggesting that we do not have the capacity to resolve headaches of such proportions. When you really think about it, Kenyans have never solved any political mystery to this day…and there’s no indication it’s going to start now.

You also choose to turn a blind eye on the benefits a trip to The Hague will bring to Kenya and Africa in general. You talk of airing our dirty linen in public…really who yet doesn’t know what happened in Kenya? Who doesn’t know the extent our politicians can go in trying to get in power? I think we receive worse publicity by trying to protect and hide known villains. I say let’s expose them and possibly jail them….doing so will be the greatest deterrent for future leaders.

And another thing, if healing is what we want, the court must be seen as impartial….in our case nothing gets more impartial than The Hague. While a local tribunal will constitute a retinue of credible judges of integrity, it will be so going by Kenyan standards…and we all know what that means.

Sam Okello said...

Kalamari,

What drives my position on the Hague is the integrity and self-worth of the black man. For years we've relied on solutions made in Western capitals to run our lives. At the beginning of this new millenium it was my hope that Africans would begin to do things right, make sensible decisions, run their affirs in an orderly manner. What I'm witnessing is a siruation where we are beginning to actually feel comfortable with being told how to do just about everything. How can that be a good thing?

I've lived away from Kenya long enough to know how the world regards the African. We're regarded as inferior. In fact, some serious researchers like Dr. Watson have gone as far as suggesting that there's empirical evidence to prove the intellectual inferiority of the black man. Don't you think we play into those negative stereotypes by always crying for help from the West? When will we learn to walk...then run...if whenever we start to walk we stumle and cry out fro help? I say let's walk, let's stumble, let's bruise oursleves, but let's always get up and keep going. That's how the people we're always eager to run to for help got to where they are.

No, Kalamari, I don't say what I say because I hate Westerners. Some of my best friends are from the West. I say what I say because I feel that Kenya is now ready to move to the next level. We must do it on our own.

That's my vision for Kenya.

Sam Okello said...

Vikii,

I agree with you entirely on the tribunal. Kenyans will be watching how it works very closely. For the sake of our nation, I pray we pass the test. I believe we will. As for the Hague, I want it to be a solution of last resort. We will send our sons and daughters there with a heavy heart, not because they'll be mishandled there, but because of the statement a move like that makes about our intellectual capability.

Let's rule out failure as an option. Many of us have become so skeptical about our government that we openly hope for failure just to prove we can't. I think that is plainly pathetic. I hope such people will grow up in a hurry, or we are in deep trouble.

The trouble of low self-worth.

kalamari said...

Sam,

The black man must be judged by what the black man does. If cutting each other to pieces in Rwanda, Kenya and now Zimbabwe points out our inferiority, then it is true….but only in the absence of Hitler and Mussolini.

Look, I understand the need to be recognized for the content in our character as opposed to the color of our skin…. but in matters general, Africa is indeed the darkest continent. Recognizing our incompetence, analyzing our options and choosing to pursue ways that will most likely bare results (and see villains in perpetual jail) is our only hope for change. Failure to skin the monster and succumbing to local tribunals that will most certainly yield absolutely no results, while sovereign, is the sure way to reinforce the world view of African ignorance.

But even with that, I don’t think the pursuit of black ‘supremacy’ begins with our handling of the Waki report. Ours are issues that require immediate attention. It’s may not be a great idea to constitute a local tribunal solely as a public bazaar to record our trailblazing efforts in championing the ‘equality’ of the black man. Jamaas are eating leaves in Uganda bwana.

kalamari said...

Oh and by the way, progress is seeing a staunch witchdoctor going to Kenyatta Hospital for treatment.

kalamari said...

And I just couldn’t resist this:

A local tribunal in Kenyan is equivalent to a Kangaroo court. Let it be known that a Kangaroo court is neither a court of law nor is it a court presided over by a kangaroo.

Have a great day.

Anonymous said...

I did not know Kalamari to be so funny. That last kangaroo court line cracked me up.

Taabu said...

Sam,
You are right WE ARE CRAWLING so fast and soon running. No wonder we have to hire non African Arturs to do the DIRTY work even though they remind us we are NIGGERS. You see we are civilized and cannot afford such primitivity.

And BTW we are serially crawling so why not chop off others to have them at our height. You are a genious Sam, nani kama wewe, no wonder you know Africa better from WITHOUT.

kevoh said...

The Hague is the only place to take murderers and rapists. Can you imagine that at the moment we still don't know how may people had been arrested, held, tried and jailed with the existing constitution since 5,000 Kenyans were killed?

The political class know if the cases end up in the Hague names will named and many of them would succumb. Anyway I like the fact that you can still be HANGED in Kenya

b-carotene said...

I cant for the life of me understand where this assumption that the ever so glorified Hague will be ready and willing to deal with all the crappy stuff that Kenya refuses to deal with? Is it supposed to replace Kenya's court system or just deal with a select few individuals who fit whatever crime descriptions that goes with the ICCs mandate?
I think one thing of utmost importance mentioned by Sam Okello is the Truth and Reconciliation process. I would like to hear more about this. Though separate (i.e. no subsuming the tribunal or whatever under it), it seems to me that it should work in parallel with whatever system is placed to investigate, prosecute and punish the crimes. We do need to rebuild trust among individuals and groups in Kenya. Indeed, we do need a safety valve.

papa plus said...

I completely disagree with the notion that justice can be served in a free and transparent manner within the borders of Kenya.

Those named need to resign immediately and defend themselves at the Hague. If Raila and ODM did not see fit to do to court to challenge Kibaki's presidency, then how is it possible that those mentioned will get a fair hearing?

Lastly, by sending this issue to the Hague, kenyans can move on with their lives and tackling other issues. If this issue is tackled in Kenya, we are likely to be consumed by it for the next 3 years. Let those named defend themselves away from the rest of us who want to get down to work.

papa plus said...

Sam Okello,

I think your suppositions are based entirely on prayer and God's help. The same way that people hold hands in prayer before traveling from Kisume to Nairobi.

What, pray tell, are the chances that they'll make it to Nairobi safely?

C'mon bw. Okello. You are a smart guy. I know you know your way around the internet. Why not look at facts man.

How will that prayer help your journey when we know that kenyan roads are dangerously under maintained, kenyan public transports are dangerously undermainatained, the drivers are woefully underregulated, the police are practically highway robbers...

You can hope and pray all you want and it will not amount to a sack of beans.

Tell me what country solved such issues on prayer and integrity of their people?

Like someone said, we hide our filthy linen from ourselves yet the rest of the world can see our underwear has skidmarks. We are creating a culture of just sweeping stuff under the rug. Screwed up elections, well we can power share; anglo leasing, well the money was returned; grand regency...

c'mon man, get serious. I trully think you and your ilk should stand aside. Your time has come and gone. Your ideas are for yesturyear solutions. The younger generation does not have the same hung ups on skin color as you do. They just want to have things work right and it really doesn't matter where it gets done. The world my friend is becoming a village.

I'd seriously ask you to consider other options and their viability.

b-carotene said...

Sometimes one should not be faulted if they wonder whether some kumekucha contributors are thoroughly stoned when they post.

Why would anyone base a judgement to pursue the Hague (or not) on the bumpkins decision not to contest the presidency via Kenya's courts? That is fallacious if not outright stupid. Hobo-bumpkin's lust for power and for international attention left him with NO incentive to seek arbitration via our local courts. If he were that concerned about institutions and their performance he'd have sought a generally different solution, rather than gleefully become a part of the same government he derided, in a shady power-sharing deal.

Anyway, let me help you think this through. A simpler and more convincing justification is that similar crimes have occured in the past and the state has fallen way short of prosecuting those for obvious reasons. I have neither the time nor the inclination to launch into a tutorial, but the Akiwumi commision/report should suffice to showcase this problem.

Lose those fictitious musings about molasses bumpkin, hmmmmm?

Taabu said...

B-CARROT,
Why take the convinient and predictable tangent? If you SUBJECTIVELY trust the Kenyan courts then welcome to Mars. It hits hardbut you better accept and learn to live with the predicament that at least somebody was SMART ENOUGH to expose THEFT to the world. Only a political geneious can blackmail the WHOLE WORLD. But again living a lie never starved one of oxygen, indulge.

E-CHANGE said...

"Samo"
I wish your first paragraph on this post had started with...
"dear 1500 dead kenyans, to avoid acrimony on Waki Here Is The Way Forward"

b-carotene said...

Honestly Taabu, yours (i.e ODMorons) is not to reason why.....no?
I'd rather teach dolphins how to write.

Anonymous said...

This whole argument about sovereignity is a pile of crap. We all know the only reason the politicians now favor a local tribunal is because they think can manipulate its workings. And if worst comes to worst and any of these goons are found guilty, the president- who himself is indicted by virtue of the meeting at state house, will have the power to grant these goons clemency. Let them all fry at the Hague.

papa plus said...

B-carotene,

Opinions are like a-holes. Everyone has one. Just don't be one...

Sayra said...

Reading this is disappointing to say the least. You are the kind that some of us should be looking at for leadership and direction since none is coming from the politicians ... lakini enyewe i would rather lead myself.

Sam,
The only point i agree on is the immediate & unconditional resignation. But let that not be a lie that since they are not in government they will not have influence on what will happen if a local tribunal is set. If you would seek the true information by now you should be knowing that some of the most powerful individuals in the land are not even on government payslip.

What in 40 plus years can kenyans say was done fairly by the government? If i can't entrust with with one shilling ... it will be very foolish of me to entrust you with 10 shillings. You have said it that there are kenyans who are still in IDP camps (so you are well aware they are still in the camps). Now Sam, if you can't deal with IDPs why should I entrust you do deal with an injust act to a whole 38million people? how & why would i do that? And before you even do that ... tell me how you even have the guts and the mind to think you can sort a whole 38million people but somehow you can't for 500 thousand people.

Am glad you have now talked of punishment (and not the forgiveness thingy) ... that is encouraging.

I know the Waki list is not what we would like it to be. But it gives us a stepping 1st step to rectifying our problems and it will be a good warning to anyone planning violence of any kind in the future.

You said I've lived away from Kenya long enough to know how the world regards the African. So what? You would rather live a lie than correct your bad behavior in the name of protecting an image (a fake image for that matter)? surely ... I know you know this so its just a reminder ... when you decide to move forward listen to yourself and those like minded and those that you have a common goal.

Lastly Sam, for how long must one cut you into peace for you to know that they don't mean any good for you ... is it till the time you die? For how long must one ignore you and treat you badly for you to know that they don't feel you ... is it till you are 50yrs old? Pliz give me an answer to those two question.

papa plus said...

In addition, b-carotene, please educate us on exactly what better way Raila (or anyone in his situation) should have handled it. And hold the sarcasm and meaningless rhetoric masquarading as wise intelligent musings.

Trivia: Did you know that dolphins have sex for fun just like humans?

Vikii said...

B-carotene, the enormity of the amount of time you have in your hands is truly amazing. You are playing guitars to goats buddy and that's your choice. These people are not just stonned, they are shroomed as well. They have one pair of lenses through which they see the world--the bumpkin lenses. And they tell you "someone was smart to...". Bullcrap, smartness must have acquired a new meaning. And you compare them to dolphins? These latter ones are way way smarter. I would definitely choose to teach dolphins to write their names.

That said, B-Carotene, "A few good Men" was a good movie, don't you think? I loved it, wrote a paper on it and PASSED the paper. So you can see how pleasant it is for me every time I hear you shred these 'ODMorons' with that line.

I love you, buddy, i do.

Sayra said...

'Thanks' Vikii.

You guys must be having special abilities for animals ... def not humans.

papa plus said...

Vikii,

I swear these days you confuse me. It's almost as if you have dual personailities. You wrote a paper on a few good men? What class was that? American film 101? I wrote papers on Merchant of Venice but that was for Literature. Kind of weird to brag about a paper on a few good men, no?

b-carotene said...

Hey Vikii buddyboy, howdy! Good advise--muchos gracias.

I owe them dolphins (off the Mwachapani islands-heh-heh-heh:) a thousand apologies--the affront least intended.

And now, to the clueless, a clue. For the self-professed liberal DEMOCRATS, turned social DEMOCRATS, who always ever shall be communists at heart-->See Mahatma Ghandi <--Love is the subtlest FORCE in the world.

Finally, in this season of goodwill to all men/women, a sincere wish and a song:

Kristu mwaaana mweeeeegaaaaa?
Kriistu mwaaaaana mweeeeega!

Vikii said...

Papa Plus, 'thanks'(Sayra, 2008, 20.12).

I love the movie. Long time ago, when I went to the COMMUNITY COLLEGE in Kitui, they introduced me to "American Film 101". That's the only paper I ever wrote and passed. And of course you can tell that by either listening to or reading me. I choose to play in my own league (probably with b-carotene). I can tell your league from what you write. I choose to play in Serie B which definitely is miles away from the serie A you play in, yes that ODMoron league. I, however do not envy you. I can never be an ODMoron and you know it.

And I am not bragging, buddy. Heck I am not JALUO. I DO NOT brag. But I can. If I wanted to.

That's not too confusing,is it?You need to consider 'Papa Plus with power foam'. Just an idea.

P.S. Sayra, you remind me of the last time I had typhoid. That was not fun. I think you need to have a good, not so moronic night now.

E-CHANGE said...

Vikii,
what does being JALUO have to do with bragging?i'm just curious you know, please educate me

Joe said...

Folks,

All was well until b-carotine brought up RAO's name. Why in gods name did you do that?

I agree with those who say the Waki list should not be used to settle political scores, or as a springboard to launch political careers.

I also have no problem with the Hague, given our incompetence at solving this kind of stuff. I am a proud black man, but i think i am not stupid.

If a local tribunal is set up, that is when all of you shouting at each other here need to gang up and speak with one voice. We need to be vigilant. We need those who are mentioned within the course of the tribunal to be investigated and charged. We also need to ensure the rights of those that are implicated are respected.

Taabu, Vikii, b-carotene and papa plus. Thanks for your comments. I am one of those who believe you folks can work together for the good of this country. Remember none of you is more KENYAN than the other. You just need a common cause that is neither ODM or PNU.....

Kalamari... Thanks for your excellent comments.

Sam Okello said...

Guys,

There are certain matters on which there is neither ODM nor PNU, just Kenya. The weightiness of what we're dealing with here demands a sober assessment and approach. Sometimes I think as Kenyans, ans Africans, we've played with our heritage too long. At a time like this we must seize the opportunity we have to rise to the occassion.

We are not treating the Waki Report as a document set in stone, one whose pronouncements must be followed to the letter even if they imperil our nation. That's what the Americans and Europeans wanted us to do. We said no. What we're now doing is using the report to evolve sensible and credible ways to put the ghost of the flawed elections and the madness they ocassioned behind us.

By the way, Am I beginning to sense a shift toward accepting reconcilliation and forgiveness as a viable way to move forward after justice is metted out? That makes my day.

Once more, the table of brotherhood in Kenya is at the Uhuru Park. I can't wait for the day I give a hug to Sayra and Taabu and Vikii and B-Caratone and Urlxinc and Chris and Phil and Joe and Kalamari and everybody else.

That's my vision.

Sam Okello said...

Sayra,

The answer to your question is this. Everybody in Kenya felt wronged after the elections. Everybody. What I've been advocating is a solution that takes care of everybody's sensibilities. It's at a time like this that the middle ground needs to be found so that the good of the nation is advanced, not the interests of just one group or one individual.

In other words, Sayra, we are all guilty. Kibaki for election theft. Raila for curving Kenya into an alliance that scared our brothers and sisters in Central Province. Kalonzo for betraying the Kenyans by looking out for himself at a time the nation was burning. All the rest of us for harboring hate toward our fellow Kenyans immediately after the elections. We may have not killed, but we were just as guilty, Sayra. The Kenyans who killed and pillaged were a product of a socio-political and economic culture we have encouraged for years.

By the way, just look at the on-going party elections now. Are you inspired? This culture is what I fear in Kenya. When will we ever vote without people resorting to ngimis and rungus?

Sayra?

Singa said...

Another post please Phil you can write about Raila Odinga going to lead the Obama [his cousin] pre-inaugural celebrations and how he has taken on Mugabe. You can also emphasize the fact that latest scientific evidence show that he is not just Obama's cousin but 1st cousin meaning mama Sarah Hussein is a grandma to both. Taabu, Sir Alex and Ivy will be the lead contributors articulating Odinga's ''ideology''

b-carotene said...

E-Change (former e-cop, eh? I take your job for a moment, no ill feelings, sawa?)

Joe said:
"All was well until b-carotene brought up RAO's name. Why in gods name did you do that?"

--Joe, you know this is not accurate. Please read power foam's earlier post again. But you're right--none is more Kenyan than the other. Good to remind.

Papa plus said:
"Opinions are like a-holes. Everyone has one. Just don't be one..."

--Hii ni tabia mbaya. I say!

Tembo said:

"B-CARROT"

--Pia hii ni tabia mbaya, Taabu. You know I dont like my name mutilated.

Sam Okello said:
"Am I beginning to sense a shift toward accepting reconcilliation and forgiveness as a viable way to move forward after justice is metted out?"

--I love this. More please!!

Sam Okello said:
"We are not treating the Waki Report as a document set in stone, one whose pronouncements must be followed to the letter even if they imperil our nation. That's what the Americans and Europeans wanted us to do."

--Now, this is deffo not true. In all fairness, they just want to see a process started that will get us back on track gainst impunity-those kind souls (sic!)--our development "partners."

Vikii said:
"That is why I now feel the best way would actually be the ICC. Inasmuch as I do not feel they are any more competent (I do not have any reason to feel so),.."

--Here's some notes on the ICC (and other int'l tribunals)from a recent Economist. Like Vikii (and as I noted before--dont know how to pull up prior posts) they seem to have reservation on its competence. A few excerpts follow:

Choosing judges

Wanted: better judgment, fewer crowd-pleasers and lickspittles

Should judges be elected or appointed? In the case of international courts, this age-old conundrum has a new twist

http://www.economist.com/world/international/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12638678

But in international tribunals, from the International Court of Justice (better known as the World Court) to the European Court of Human Rights, judges are typically elected—albeit by national representatives, not popular franchise. And as with the American system, there is no guarantee that such ballots will produce individuals who are qualified or honest. As a result, decisions affecting millions of lives can be taken by questionable people: “government hacks and lickspittles, with little or no judicial experience, who have demonstrated their loyalty to their governments by defending the unconscionable,” as one human-rights lawyer puts it.

Critics of the court have tried to draw a link between its dubious membership and its more controversial decisions. Soon after the court’s “advisory opinion” of 2004 on the wall erected by Israel in the West Bank, calling the barrier a breach of humanitarian law, Eric Posner, a law professor at the University of Chicago, made a withering attack. Blasting the court as “irrelevant” and increasingly ignored, he blamed partial judges for its decline. He claimed that 90% of the time they vote for their home state—or else line up with nations of a similar stripe: the rich with the rich, the authoritarian with the authoritarian. Of course, his points do not prove that the court was wrong about the wall—but they do challenge its role as a moral arbiter.

Getting a seat on a UN-backed international tribunal, with a salary of around $170,000 a year, is a tempting prospect in poor countries where judges earn barely a tenth of that. Small wonder that some governments promote candidates as a reward for services rendered. (One member of a war-crimes tribunal turned out to have few qualifications other than being the cousin of his country’s president.) But stereotypes can mislead: many judges from poor places are outstanding, while those from rich lands can be dreadful.

Sayra said...

Sam,

We both agree on the problem but your solutions lie on one side and its quite obvious which one.

That my friend is not the way forward ... its the way backwards ... you know- one step forward 3 steps backwards. Taking that route is simply chasing away that which we are seeking.

Anonymous said...

Singa,

You are off topic.

Sam Okello said...

Sayra,

Some of us behave as if it's a bad thing to belong to a party. It's not. I'm of course leaning ODM. Everybody knows that. What would be wrong is if my leaning ODM makes me incapable of judging waht's good for Kenya. At the end of the day, Kenya is more important than our parties or individual interests.

By the way, what aspect of my article did you disagree with?

Sam Okello said...

b-carotene,

I sense you like this table of brotherhood thing. Let's spread the love, my friend.

Sayra said...

Sam,

Its not a crime to belong to a political party ... its your right.

I strongly disagree with having a local tribunal. You said I hope we all realize that the credibility of our nation is on the line here. what credibility are you talking about? You are favoring a local tribunal for the sake of saving a face ... and am wondering what is this face you are trying to save. And that is why i asked you in one of the comments- would you rather live a lie than correct your bad behavior in the name of protecting an image?

Its true kenya is important than our parties and individual interests. Its is also important than our cheap patriotism and selective solutions.

b-carotene said...

Sam Okello says:
I sense you like this table of brotherhood thing. Let's spread the love, my friend.

b-carotene says:
Nope, not at all. Never. Forget that.
Mine is self-interest....correctly understood.
Just that.

Anonymous said...

Sam Okello,

Good news. Perpetrators of post-election violence early this year could escape trial and jail, after all, if an amnesty clause is introduced to the draft Bill establishing the special tribunal.

http://www.eastandard.net/InsidePage.php?id=1144001298&cid=4&

Anonymous said...

what do you mean 'demeaning path to Hague'? are you seeing our collection of rapists and warlords as something to be proud of?

whats more demeaning that the acts of savagery they meted on hapless Kenyans?

We actually need to get them tried in Mogadishu and kept in some hell hole of a jail.

Funzo kwa SAM OKELLO said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
dede said...

Folks, I’m worried. Is Ghana going the Kenya way?

Anonymous said...

Guys,

There maybe an amnesty clause. Did Sam Okello know somethign we did not know?

Vikii said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

What in the world are you guys talking about?

kenyaone said...

its sad. How can some people be already talking of amnesty when we dont even know (officially) who the perpetrators are. Whether we like it or not the fcats speak for themselves. Our judiciary Legislature and executive were unable to deal with Goldenberg, Anglo leasing or anything else for that matter and I can promise you that they will not set up an tribunal that will deliver a thing except sing about amnesty. he main issue is that for a tribunal the suspects must appear in person thats why the kenyan political class want this thing nipped in the bud. Its not so much that they fear thier names may be in it but they all know that it would set a precedent and in future should they be involved in some antional incident that required the same medicine there would be no way out. Fortunately for us, an 'accord' is an international treaty so we have somewhat ceeded our say on the matter. believe you m e the international community will stop at nothing to see that the perpetrators are brough to book. Our kenyan politicians are still underestimating the international communitys resolve. I guess tey will find out the hard way not to mention that fact that kenyns have said this one someone MUST pay.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Okello,

Tell us what you know about this amnesty. Was this why you wanted a local tribunal?

Sam Okello said...

Guys,

Don't get paranoid about this amnesty thing. Why does this little word send cold shivers down your spines. As far as I know, it hasn't been decided whether it will be adopted or not. Second, if it should be adopted, why would it be such a horrible thing? Look, it would end up being just one among the many options we have on the table to deal with the people we'll have convicted.

Countries all over the world have constitutional provisiom for the Head of Government to pardon wrongdoesr of any ilk. Granted murder and destruction of property rise to a level that I'd feel uncomfortable with a pardon, or amnesty. I personally feel some restitution is in order here.

But again, let consensus be our guide. As we debate this matter, we'll come to an agreement whether to stick it in the books or keep it out. That's the way, guys.

Vikii said...

Chris, why are you deleting comments? Are you attempting to stifle our right of expression? Come on man, you said this was a free speech zone. And that's what it should be.

Anonymous said...

Just to prove that its politician who fund and organise ethnic fights, without the Waki List ansd the accompanying Hague fear, si saa hi as we dialogue in Kumekucha kungekuwa na tribal tension and some fighting of some sorts in some corners of the Republic, especially within Rift Valley? Why is there so much peace now???

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