Why do hitherto brilliant brains MUTATE into porridge once in government? Lord Acton must have been a genius with his time-tested adage that absolute power corrupts absolutely. A look into our cabinet would leave the late Rogue Ambassador Smith Hempstone turning in his grave for wasted efforts to protect pretenders for champions of good governance and democracy. So it appears Obama's utter contempt for Kibaki's protest letter is to send an Assistant Minister to deal with Kenya. And our chief diplomat Wetangula has threatened to reciprocate the humiliation to President Kibaki. Maybe Renneberger will be declared persona non grata soon.
But Wetangula appears to know something we don't when he names Fidel Castro and Ahmednedijan's trip to UN despite their respective hostility America. His comparison leaves you wondering who is the Kenya's equivalent of the two and if he is a target of BAN.
It must have sounded intellectually stimulating and sense of pride for Weta to mention Nairobi, Geneva, New York and Vienna in the same sentence. We are sovereign and independent, so what? The US are doing what ordinary Kenyans would wish to do were it not for saffocating IMPUNITY. Any form of pressure to release us from the yoke of impunity is more than welcome. Well, apologists will rush to the next rooftop to shout neo-colonialism.
The US pressure for reforms has been reduced to the predictably PNU vs ODM tiff. The hitherto champions of good governance shifted the goalposts immediately they tasted power. As one PKW noted here in the previous post the political foot is now squarely stuck in the other foot. Flashback to 2000 and see Kibaki and the present brigade lambasting Moi on imperial presidency and now?
Edible sovereignty
The latest poverty index has shamed the national lie about phenomenal growth during the 2002-7 period. The increase in poorer Kenyans is once more living testimony of the resulting embarrassment of living a national lie. Anything premised on this vice is simply unsustainable.
Wetangula and Mutula's rush to see every criticism directed at the ruling class as an agenda to embarrass the president smacks of sycophancy of yore. Speak of hollow pride from a beggar who cannot feed himself while living in darkness.
Meanwhile the pressure is on and the lid may not hold it any more when Ocampo lands within our shores next week.
Wetangula is a big joke whenever he opens his mouth to speak. How can he be proud to name 'jad, castro and the likes when trying to bash the Americans? Wentangula should know that there are those who have held higher positions in the gov and fried themselves in their own oil. Wetangula bane!!!! that guy should know that PNU will not even support him come next election when push comes to shove
ReplyDeleteWhen we comment on things it is good to show we have some intelligence. I cannot defend kenyan leaders because of the way they treat their people. Of course the people themselves are also to blame.
ReplyDeleteHowever, is some one saying that the foreign minister of kenya should just cheer carson as he humiliates kenya and its leaders? wetangula is just doing the job he is supposed to do. Remember Ouko and his defence of Moi? Now another person is saying wetangula will not be supported by pnu in 2012! And this some how has something to do with the job wetangula is supposed to do now. come on chaps we can support our side and still appear intelligent.
I welcome US ban of some of our leaders.
ReplyDeleteNow signs are showing that we will not have a new constitution before 2012, and further signs are showing that Kenya will be polarised in 2012.
The rich are becoming richer and the poorer are becoming poorer, being consoled by flats that they will live in but in the end there will have no enough income to afford a meal a day.
Millions of shillings meant for IDP have mysteriously disappeared. Some IDP have been given land somewhere else showing that the government has terribly failed to return them to their own land.
Then in the end it sets for itself an exam and marks it and give itself 90%! What a shame!
The only people benefiting from this government are the high middle class and high class. The poor who form majority of the people of Kenya are forced to continue to reduce their expenditures due to inflation, which we are very happy because it went down to 17%!
Just like issues of Migingo island where Kibaki woke up and declared Migingo "is marwa", and went back to sleep, during Labour day he woke up and announced what should be the minimum wage and went back to sleep without setting up a system to ensure this is implemented.
There is plenty in Kenya, the richer are having a party everyday, but what the poor can get from the party is the crumbs of cake which have fallen down to the floor.
As the poor gets poorer so does it become easy to influence them to fight one another, so that whoever stands against the elite will face the wrath of fellow poor people who have been purchased by the rich.
The politics of Kenya is what Githongo called politics of "it's our turn to eat". Since the poor cannot get there then what happens is the replacement of elites. Many people thought Moi was going to bring expected prosperity to Kenya, just the same others thought Kibaki was going to do, while others thought that's what Raila was going to do, while some think it's either Uhuru, Kalonzo or Ruto who can manage to do that. Yes our leaders have brought propsperity but to themselves only and not to majority of Kenyans.
Simply let me put it this way - we currently lack leadership and we have only two options: we either all come together, live our tribalistic and slave minds aside, and fight our "leaders" collectively, or we live our national pride and accept the support of Americans. All these will be with an aim of putting a good leader and changing our institutions to facilitate good governance for development and prosperity of our nation. Unfortunately the former cannot be achieved currently and that's why American support becomes very important.
Or whoever says Americans should live us alone, can he tell us how we can fight our leaders? We have failed to do that and that's why you see leaders like Soita Shitanda telling people at Mau that he cannot evict them the way the government wants to do because in the end he'll need their votes! Thats what I call arrogance from a politician but also taking advantage of our ignorance. Already our politician have recognise something that can be used to scuttle constitutional reform. What are we the people of Kenya doing to tell them off?
Our leaders have done nothing concerning Goldenberg, Anglo-leasing, Maize scandal, Triton scandal, numerous Nairobi City Council scandals e.t.c. and we have also done nothing to ensure something is done about all these scandals, meanwhile we are continuing to pay taxes and levies because we have also failed, yet some of us are saying America should live us alone. If you are not among these leaders or you are not benefiting from their greed then you are either insane or ignorant.
The Americans are not fighting Kenya and it's people but they are fighting our leaders and we should not rally behind them at any given time.
Wow!
ReplyDeleteA cabinet minister from an impoverished and corrupt 3rd world country threatening some sanctions against the world's only super power! Mugabe kando. Now that will make it as headlines in New York Times. Go on Wetangula..omundu khwa mundu..ban them please.
Wetangula, the Dracula. The man is letting Kenya down. We have never had such a silly foreign minister.
ReplyDeleteKenya is a hope for Africa. This is why the US and EU are trying to kick the asses of Kibaki and his stooges to wake up.
ReplyDeleteIf you corrupt yourself into a gov and hope to be welcome everywhere in the world of today, then you are cheating yourself twice.
Our friends the US and EU must tighten the ropes around the necks of these thieves.
They can go to Peking or to harare or Libya to do shopping and take their children to study there.
We are tired of these swines.
A time will and we feel that time has arrived for Africans to think for themselves.
ReplyDeleteFor instance, in the Narcotics Drugs and Psychotropic Substances Control (Control) Act 1994 one of the plants prohibited is cannabis/hemp.
The question is how many Kenyans have ever wondered on the wisdom of banning cannabis growing in Kenya? The facts are that, banning of hemp had nothing to do with it being a drug. Hemp was banned because it was a competitor to hydrocarbon and petro - chemical industry. Period.
If that is so, why do countries like Kenya which do not have any hydrocarbon and petro - chemical industry to talk of ban and continue to ban it?
We know that due to conditioning Kenyans have received via the propaganda machines, whenever they hear about cannabis, they jump. Lest one jump foolishly, we are not advocating for usage of any drugs, whether it is alcohol, tobacco or marijuana.
From our extensive research, we know that, it is possible to remove the tetrahydro-cannabinol, which is the substance that leads to “highness.”
Thus, it is possible to grow herb which cannot be used a drug. So, why has Kenya not done this when Canada, UK, Germany, France and Australia to name just a few, do allow growing of industrial hemp? Simply, industrial hemp is poised to become a billion dollar industry and we are not even aware of it. How sad.
But, why would growing of industrial hemp help Kenyan economy? There are so many reasons and it is impossible to state all of them here.
For instance, check your shower curtains and all plastics can be replaced with hemp. These are made from imported oil, but, we can make them using locally grown hemp. How much money would that be in he hands of Kenyan farmers?
When we grow cotton, we must use a lot of chemicals which we must import. Hemp grown by Kenyan farmers does not need imported chemicals.
When it comes to clothes, hemp has the best clothes, and in fact, the original jeans were made of hemp. When it comes to paper, hemp paper like the one used on the original American constitution is better than trees. This means that cutting of trees to make paper is unnecessary if we grow hemp.
When it comes to gasoline, hemp is also a source. The best diapers are from hemp.
In 1930, Henry Ford made a car using hemp fibre and was more durable than what we have today. Therefore, we can have cars made up with hemp fibre. Thus, growing industrial hemp will put billions in the pockets of the poor farmer.
Simply stated, as Peter Tosh would say, let us say, legalise it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx-pdWTz0Ro&feature=PlayList&p=F7DBE98F508701C4&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=18
We also join USA in saying, Hemp for Victory:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6234815658481845054#
Mwarengethe,
ReplyDeletecannabis is legal in California and some other states as a prescribed healing drug. The feds used to interfere but obama's AG has said they will no longer interfere. The upshot being cannabis is legal in California. Now you know California is the trend setter in US, and US is the trend setter in the world. Meaning vey soon you will be able to smoke your favorite weed without interference.
On the subject at hand, all those against reform should be banned. So wetangula should ban all those americans against obama's healthcare reform.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteMwarengethe,
cannabis is legal in California and some other states as a prescribed healing drug. The feds used to interfere but obama's AG has said they will no longer interfere. The upshot being cannabis is legal in California.
Our comment:
Yes, we are very much aware of these developments.
More so, our concern is not hemp for smoking (Mwarang'ethe does not use any drug and does not not any need) but, for industrial purposes to help stop ecological destruction while helping to put money in the pockets of the poor farmers as opposed to sending all our money to oil barons for plastics we can produce with locally grown hemp.
What we are trying to bring about is the slavish mentality Africans have become used to.
For instance, in the NACADA's website, http://www.nacada.go.ke/htm/drugb.html, u find these words:
"Cannabis has been used as a folk remedy for centuries, but it has no well-established medical use today."
What can one say of this ignorance on those charged with such responsibilities and isn't this type of ignorance all over in our governance?
@ Mwarangethe.
ReplyDeleteForget your beloved Hemp for a minute and aks yourself: What have we done with the so many resources that we are blessed with in Africa like diamonds, gold, oil, copper, etc?
Research after research clearly show that the DRC is potentially the richest country in the world because of it's huge natural deposits which remain or are poorly and corruptly exploited.
Rivers of blood flow from the Niger Delta to Ivory Coast to Congo and many other hot spots. For crying out we can't even manage resources like the Mau Complex.
Let's first appreciate the resources we have before we hunger for more when we can't even manage something as simple as a CDF cattle dip.
M-Pesa wrote that
ReplyDeleteResearch after research clearly show that the DRC is potentially the richest country in the world because of it's huge natural deposits which remain or are poorly and corruptly exploited.
Our response.
Yes, you have a point.
However, have you considered how the current land tenure systems in Africa are a critical factor in so called resource curse in places like Congo or Nigeria?
The wars you see in Congo, Nigeria, Sudan etc are nothing but wars to capture land rents.
Most interestingly, most of these rents are captured by foreigners, but, when one talks of natural resources/land rents, you hear their hired thugs shouting about sanctity of land title.
There is more than you see for we know ALASKA has the the kind of system that all nations should adopt for managing natural resources as they are and should be, SOCIAL WEALTH.
However, you hear none of this (Alaska model) in the so called free press and universities. Why?
If you wanna know how Alaska manages its oil, get in touch via mwarangethe@gmail.com.
Put Congo's land tenure under conditional title as Alaska has done, and you will see what will happen. Thats why we are always insisting on serious land reforms as the starting point of any serious reforms.
I have a problem with journalists who call politicians leaders. Leaders are people who have made positive contributions to the society and are well respected for that, even if they ahve no money to show for it. The rest of the people are not leaders, they are just thieving politicians, or Raila, Kibaki, Kalonzo, etc.
ReplyDeletethis wetangula guy is the biggest fool to ever enter government in sub-saharan Africa! i dare him to receprocate?
ReplyDeletehe! he! he! ati wetangula should ban the people against obama's health care programme omundu-ku- mundu. kenya maajabu kabisa!
ReplyDeletesound of a drum from the valley down beyond:
ReplyDeletewetungula! wetungula! wetungula! wetungula! wetungula!
wewe ni tungu mbovu la idara ya mambo ya inje na aibu.
don't forget to remember mwangele ngele ngele ngele and how he vanished like ngele ngele ngele ngele ngele ngele! ngala ngala ngala ngala ngala into oblivion.
ohhhhhhh! wetangula! the drums of change are calling you, "wetungula tungula tungula tungula tungula tiii! wetangula tangula tangula tangula tangula taa!
you will fall by the wayside like many of your onetime comrades in dead politics. musikari kombo-kombo etc.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
For obvious reasons we do not expect Mr. Wetangula to keep quiet when such pronouncements.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I always wonder, can't someone take him to some sort finishing school or something? The man needs to learn how to speak with a bit of decorum. There are some positions that shouldn't have just any village madman to open his mouth. But then again maybe we expect too much, look at his boss-'mavi ya kuku'.
Mama,
ReplyDeletei see you have removed the gloves of pretext and your knuckles of hatred are showing. go on and hate,
Pride in poverty: What is the real cause?
ReplyDeleteLet us put our prejudices aside and look at the real situation.
According to the DN, Kenyan "public" debt will be KES 1.33 trillion by 2012. We expect it to be even higher. Source: http://www.nation.co.ke/business/news/-/1006/678990/-/if6accz/-/index.html#commentsAnchor
One would have expected a hue and cry over such a grave matter, but, no one is talking. But, how can people who do not know their slaves speak out?
There are those out of sheer ignorance on the question of money cos they have a kadegree in so called economics from sijui wapi, will dismiss this quote by Jefferson that:
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by
inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them,
will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the
continent their fathers conquered."
Any serious student of history from the dawn of civilization will realise that nations can be conquered using three methods:
(a) Through war. The problem with war is that, it eventually fails due to resistance and it is very expensive to maintain. See Iraq debacle.
(b) The second means is use of religion where people are fooled to give religious leaders/aristocrats their wealth as part of salvation.
We know that by studying the history of Catholic "Church." However, this method fails for lack of military force and sheer disillusionment.
(c) Third method is the ECONOMIC CONQUEST. Under this, without the masses ever realising for it does not involve force or coersion, the nation is placed under tribute in the name of legal debts and taxes.
This method is slow, but, last long lasting for the captives have their freedom to shout preserved, freedom to "worship" preserved and they can "vote" after a five years.
Dear Kenyans, you are under an economic occupation and therefore SLAVES in the land your forefathers fought for.
Unfortunately and very sadly, you are unable to see this modern slavery.
For instance, from JULY 1, to OCTOBER 9, 2009, cumulative Government expenditure on interest and other charges on DOMESTIC DEBT amounted to Sh14.40 billion.
This is just TRANSFER OF WEALTH from POOR Kenyans to RICH IDLERS to the tune of 14 billion in a span of just 4 months. Woe unto you!
Kenya belongs to Kenyans and it is the Kenyans who should decide our destiny. It is not funny that the US has been practising espionage, a treasonable offense, by wiretapping our leaders. Other than leaders, what other security secrets does Uncle Sam own about Kenya? Sad day, Kenyans.
ReplyDeleteKenya Decides said...
ReplyDeleteKenya belongs to Kenyans and it is the Kenyans who should decide our destiny.
Our response:
If you sincerely believe Kenyans are in charge, good luck for your understanding of the real situation is zero.
Think about this. All communications systems you have in kenya, (especially IT) including the ones for miliary, police, state house are imported.
It would be foolish for any nation to sell such stuff without having the ability to listen and read what you say and write using such systems. So, pole sana.
Enyi who is this Wetgula man. He is a man who was Moi's top lawyer and strong one-party supporter who never supported human lights and nominated MP.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all Wetgula you have NEVER won a fair election in your whole life. Even this last election you were rigged in and that is why you are facing an election petition in court.
After the petition you will no longer be an MP.
We would support the West's endeavor to curb these thieves in their tracks. The burden however lies with these Western nations, where these thieving politicians stash the stolen tax payer's loot. That would be a start, freeze all their assets and bank accounts until an accounting of how they acquired and accumulated that much cash in a third world country is tabled.
ReplyDeleteGosh sorry Taabu, I meant when such pronouncements are made.
ReplyDeleteAnon 2.01Am. Please be informed that Weta is not the first silly FA minister we have had. If you are old enough you will remember one Hon Wilson Ndolo Ayah. A very proud loud-mouthed good for nothing FA minister!
ReplyDeleteI can't compare that Ayah man to anyother FA we ever had since "independence"!
Dear Mwarang'ethe @ 3.23Am,
ReplyDeleteDear Sir. I wish to answer a few of you concerns about cannabis sativa. I won't get on research those mallackys. I will take you on your wrong assumptions.
I read your post but I couldn't get your connection between Bangi and Hydrocarbons. Where is the relationship? Cannabis can't be converted into petrol. And cannabis is NOT a hydrocarbon derivative! It doesn't a hydrocrabon chain as it main normancture. And even if it had a hydrocarbon chain, how long is it? Any use of the hydrocarbon chain? Bythe way Kenya has some hydrocarbons. It is the quantity that we lack. We produce mechane and ethanol from Agro-chemicals in Muhoroni and Molases plant in Kisumu among other places.
Finally, I wish to bring to your attention to a very rare situation/secret pal.
I am from a small town called Luanda in Western Province - just north West of reknown Maseno. My home town and area is hiding some fact about Cannabis sativa's use! Only a few researchers know this fact.
Luanda has the highest number of drug induced psychosis in the Kenya and maybe in the whole world! And the main drug of choice? The one and only bangi! Luanda town and its environ boasts that record of having the highest number of mad people as a result of cannabis abuse! If you doubt me just take a bus towards Busia and check for yourself. We have more than enough problems. We don't warn to increase the numbers of drug induced psychosis patients in kenya. We can't hand the few we have currently.
Thanks.
Ruto’s quest for top office splits ODM
ReplyDeletehttp://www.standardmedia.co.ke/politics/InsidePage.php?id=1144027466&cid=289&
Wow! can we discuss this? Forget about banks, hemp, dead white men and all that junk. This is it!
Anonymous @ 3.06AM
ReplyDeleteThe one and only bangi! Luanda town and its environ boasts that record of having the highest number of mad people as a result of cannabis abuse! ... We don't warn to increase the numbers of drug induced psychosis patients in kenya. We can't hand the few we have currently.
Our response:
In our post, we wrote this: "We know that due to conditioning Kenyans have received via the propaganda machines, whenever they hear about cannabis, they jump. Lest one jump foolishly, we are not advocating for usage of any drugs, whether it is alcohol, tobacco or marijuana."
Have u considered the above point?
In addition, we wrote this:
"From our extensive research, we know that, it is possible to remove the tetrahydro-cannabinol, which is the substance that leads to “highness.”
Thus, it is possible to grow herb which cannot be used a drug."
Have u considered the above?
Well, in your rash to reject the ideas, you might argue that allowing hemp to be grown which cannot be used as a drug will lead to growing of hemp that can be used as a drug. That would be true.
However, we also know that knives are used as weapons and do kill people. Have we banned manufacture and sale of knives for that reason?
Also, may you consider that men have used their sexual organs as a weapon in times of war. Do we cut all men's sexual organs to prevent their usage as weapons of war?
Secondly, you are ignoring just a few days ago, Prof Nutt of UK said that cannabis is less harmful than alcohol or nicotine. Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8336635.stm
As concerns the link between hemp and hydrocarbon and or petro - chemical industry is that most of the products made by this industry can be made using hemp.
Thus, to allow hemp growing around the world is to dismantle the MONOPOLY, WEALTH & POWER of petro chemical industry.
To start appreciating how the petro chemical industry supply chain destroys poor nation's economy and especially rural areas where hemp will be grown, we refer you to this book:
1. The Solar Economy: Renewable Energy for a Sustainable Global Future by Hermann Scheer.
If you wanna do research on the connection between hemp and hydrocarbons, we refer thee to this book:
1. The Emperor Wears No Clothes by Jack Herer.
Finally, can we ask thee. What is the REAL COST of a barrel of oil in terms of:
(a) Health to people and animals, and
(b) the future generations,
And, do not tell us that it is $70 per barrel for thats the price and not cost of it. If u ponder about this question, you will see that this information is not given to you, but, they give all nonsense about hemp. Why?
I guess we could also generate cellulosic biofuels from algae--technology has no cost.
ReplyDeleteBla,bla,bla fiss cake.
Sunday, November 1, 2009
ReplyDeleteWhy Kibaki and Raila are top candidates for The Hague
http://sukumakenya.blogspot.com/2009/11/why-kibaki-and-raila-are-top-candidates.html
It is foregone that ICC prosecutor Mr. Ocampo shall on 3rd of November be a guest of the people of Kenya. The ICC prosecutor will be in the country to shop around for the fastest ship or airplane services that will shortly route the masterminds of the 2007 post election murders, rape and plunders to The Hague. Mr. Ocampo's excursion seems a basket of mixed reactions for 2012 presidential hopefuls as for all Kenyans.
For Uhuru Kenyatta and William Ruto, Ocampo's mission to Kenya is a living nightmare they wish was just a bad dream. The duo is already sleep deprived and experiencing serious weightloss. For Mr. Kalonzo Musyoka alias 'miracle-man' this a divine tsunami that will drown competitors especially if Raila Odinga is part of Waki envelop. Is it any wonder that Kalonzo is on new found mission to unite Kenyans? Ask yourself where he has been over the last 2 years. For Raila Odinga, Ocampo's visit heralds good tidings for fixing the Ruto problem in the Orange Democratic Movement. On the other hand, Daniel Moi and Mwai Kibaki are also suffering a migraine from a likelihood of second miscarriage of project Uhuru.
However, Ocampo's mission considered in the right way is not a mission to fix political antagonism. It is a journey of hope for Kenyans who have for so long suffered grand impunity from their political leaders. It is the rays of dawn after a midnight of disrespect of human rights and rule of law by the powerful.
In all these it should slip our mind that it would be great injustice and an even greater debacle of democracy if the two principals are not indicted to The Hague. The violence that ensued after the bungled 2007 elections was composed of wars fought by persons who were doing it for their preferred leader between the two principals. If anything, none of the two principals is on record as coming out in condemnation of the violence. In fact, one of them issued a call for mass action to protest the stolen election, while his antagonist employed state resources of terror to quell the resulting protests. Whichever side of the divide you may have viewed it from, what ensued was nevertheless murder, rape and wanton destruction of public and private property.
If The Hague process is truly about addressing the impunity that has dogged Kenya for a long time, it must remain clear that there are very few top politicians that can claim to be clean of the impunity. The two principals cannot be absolved while their soldiers bear the brunt of the prosecution. No matter that there were people who executed the orders on their behalf, those people acted on the instructions of or misguided ambitions of their principals. Therefore, if the generals are to be indicted, it is only befitting if not imperative that the principals should lead the pack as they did during PEV. Otherwise, the Hague process would be a cosmetic approach to addressing the roots of impunity. Why should ICC come for William Ruto and Uhuru Kenyatta and leave Kibaki and Raila? If Uhuru and Ruto are guilt of crimes against humanity for post election violence, Kibaki and Raila are more guilt on the same account. Why should Kibaki and Raila get a soft landing? Who doesn’t know the two were protecting the interests of their masters? ...Anything short of making Kibaki and Raila to account for their commissions and omissions; for their action and inactions shall be a mockery of justice.
If Uhuru and Ruto are guilt of crimes against humanity for post election violence, Kibaki and
ReplyDeleteAnonymous wrote
Raila are more guilt on the same account. Why should Kibaki and Raila get a soft landing? Who doesn’t know the two were protecting the interests of their masters? ...Anything short of making Kibaki and Raila to account for their commissions and omissions; for their action and inactions shall be a mockery of justice.
Our comment:
Let us take two families which we call X and Y. Let us assume that the two heads of these families, Mr A and Mr B own competing businesses and they are fightng to control a lucrative market.
Let us also assume that these two men have sons we call C who is the son of A and D who is the son of B. Also, let us assume that, they also work for their respective fathers.
According to your arguments, if these two sons meet in a bar and they quarrel about business issues and then end up in a fight, then, for them to be charged with whatever crime we may find in our law books fitting their acts, we must first charge their fathers because they are the ones competing/owners of the businesses and therefore, the source of conflict. What an illogical argument.
Where RO and MK may have played a role, no doubt, they will carry their own cross. However, your arguments are useless.
To be charitable, yours is an even more useless and misleading argument as it fails to incorporate the context that anon 8:28 calls play. C and D might well have been assassins hired by A and B to take out E, F, G, H...Z.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous wrote
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
To be charitable, yours is an even more useless and misleading argument as it fails to incorporate the context that anon 8:28 calls play. C and D might well have been assassins hired by A and B to take out E, F, G, H...Z.
Our response:
Where did the anon say that R or U were given orders by RO or MK and therefore, to leave them would be unjust?
Firstly, to call for mass action does not constitute any crime or an order to commit crime.
For MK, one may argue he failed to offer protection, but, thats an entirely different argument from the ones advanced by anon.
If he had advanced the kind of argument u bring in now, there would be nothing to refute, and the4. the context u raise is obvious to all, but, irrelevant as per anons arguments.
Mwarang'ethe;
ReplyDeleteWatch Raila go at all ends to defend and justify the killings of children and women taking refugee in Kiambaa church:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FucaiXwKh1k&feature=related
Mwarange'the, sice you are a good researcher, it is good you study the charges and arguments for convictions against some of those who were convicted of genocide and crimes against humanity in Rwanda by ICTR. Most of them were not directly shouting 'Eliminate and kill Hutus and moderate Tutsis' but rather it was through their complicity and connivance and recklessness that ignited and contributed the massacre. Akayesu case, a former Mayor, is a good one.
By the way, both Kibaki and Raila may not be that safe as they assume. Let Moreno get control of the prosecutions and there may issues e.g. superior responsibility by those in control of the masses
Read some more reports at the time:
Some reports of the time:
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/kenya/TR3M6PLE4H7654P1A
"In an interview on the BBC's Hardtalk, Raila Odinga said, "the father … the catholic father who is in charge has given an explanation and the explanation is that these people who were attacking people from another community were being chased and when they were being chased they went to take refuge in a church and the pursuers then pursued them to the church … they did not know that in the church were children which were being kept there as refugees so in the process of cause they set the church on fire…"
Click on image to watch video
Raila goes on to say that his is not a defense of the massacre but his statement is doing just that. His statement that, "they (the Kalenjin militia) did not know that in the church were children which were being kept there as refugees so in the process of cause they set the church on fire" shows how hard Raila is working to take blame from the militia and allocate it to the victims.
Raila Odinga did not offer us the name of the 'CATHOLIC FATHER' who gave him that story. The facts are that the massacre was executed in an Assemblies of God church and there was not catholic father in charge of the church. Raila's lies show how far he can go to fabricate a story to justify the massacre of innocent women, children and disabled citizens who were taking refuge in the church.
The murderers who spoke to the press said,
"The men and women had babies and small children, but they carried pangas to defend themselves. Is someone with a panga innocent? It is not our custom to kill women and children. We told them to come out of the church, but they locked the door and refused to come out. So we burned them."
A third youth spoke. "They were not worshipping in the church. They were hiding. That makes it a cave not a church. Let Kibaki send a plane for the Kikuyus. They can go ... or they will be killed."
Several more men confirmed that youths from this village had helped carry out the attack.
Source: The Guardian, Jan 2, 2008
Similar reports as above have been filed by several media houses. Contrary to what Raila said, the murderers knew that there were women and children in the church. I am sure they heard cries of little children as the fires raged.
"As she climbed through the window, the attackers were on the other side - they grabbed her baby and threw it back in. The child died in the inferno," said a BBC correspondent"
Anon wrote
ReplyDeleteMost of them were not directly shouting 'Eliminate and kill Hutus and moderate Tutsis' but rather it was through their complicity and connivance and recklessness that ignited and contributed the massacre. Akayesu case, a former Mayor, is a good one.
Our response:
You are very right.
We seek not to defend, or say that RO or MK will escape. No. We do not have all the evidence Ocampo has. We add, if any of them was implicated, let them carry their own crosses.
All we reject is the illogical argument that just cos these guys were the candidates and since people fought or organised the fight on their behalf, is sufficient reason to indict them. Thats all.