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Monday, August 13, 2007

Open Letter From Marianne Briner To Dr Njoroge Mungai

August 13, 2007

Dear Njoroge,

I have decided to write this Open Letter to you after I had read in Kumekucha the very moving letter Tom Mboya’s son, Lucas, has published asking to assist in solving the murder of his father.

Here also your name came up together with Njonjo, Koinange and Moi, a.o..

And that’s when I started wondering what to do and came up with the idea of writing to you directly asking you to tell the world what you know about this and other cases like J.M. Kariuki and Dr. Robert Ouko etc.

Please understand me, I do not want to join those implicating you – but I would like to offer you to come out to say what you know.

Do this for yourself and for the benefit of Kenya – the country you have been proud to have been able to assist to lead into a better future after Independence, first as Minister for Health and then Foreign Affairs.

I have seen the interview you gave to the Stanford University remembering your accomplishments. There is a lot to be proud of - but there is also a lot to regret……..

You have reached the twilight of your years – we both have – but I want to remember you as the caring man I once loved. A man who listened to the problems of the people in his constituency to whom you had reserved each Friday when the Parliament was closed. I have seen them waiting in front of your office with the deep assurance of your help.

And I have watched with admiration how patiently you were then listening to their problems and how happy you have been if and when you were able to help……

I have seen the way you have treated your employees and farm workers – with patience and respect.

And exactly mainly all this had been the main reason why I felt in love with you.

I also remember what you told me about Dr. Ouko: that it was you who convinced President Kenyatta to appoint him Minister for Economy because you had realized his qualities during his time in Arusha.

A feeling which was mutual, as Dr. Ouko once told me when we were driving back from Kisumu to Nairobi. He wanted to follow your example when he was appointed Minister for Foreign Affairs in 1979 because he always admired your style and your achievements.

I then also remember what you wrote to me once after Dr. Ouko was killed: ‘You and Dr. Ouko should have never gotten involved in the Molasses Plant – a project tainted and doomed by too many politicians ……’ – I have read all your sadness about his death in these few lines because Kenya had lost another of its great sons……..

But I do not only want to talk about the past – and a very dark period in Kenya’s history.

The real reason for this Letter is to look into the future and to try to find a better life for all its people.

So somebody has come up with the idea of arranging a so-called Roundtable Discussion …….. and here is my challenge to you:

Would you be willing to chair and also host it (and maybe even helping in covering its expenses) ? Place and date could be discussed, but it should be outside Kenya since some of its participants are living abroad.

My proposal was Switzerland and I would be willing to organize it. What do you think ?

Somebody has called me ‘A master of foreign politics and propaganda’ – although I was laughing when reading it, I admit I also have been honored by it. But I would more than willingly be pleased to pass this title to you.

So – please – agree to my proposal. Do it in the memory of the love we once shared, do it for the admiration and love my daughter still holds for you – but most of all, do it for the Children of Kenya so they can have a better and brighter future ……… and then, last but not least, do it for yourself……….

You know my email-address and phone number ……….

Awaiting your reply,

With all my love,

Marianne

Read the statement from Lucas Mboya that started it all.

50 comments:

Taabu said...

I am sorry for failing myself in coming out after declaring self e-quarantine 2 days ago. But this rekindled TJ 'crusade' and MB's take left my fingers itching for the keyboard.

For starters you bet is as good as mine that subsequent posts with principally address diversions and not the main message. While we mourn our newspapers affinity to sell politics at the expense of REAL (tragic) news we will all go gaga here about the matter in between the sheets and conveniently ignore the theme.

That said, MB may be either stoking fire, smoking (rattling) a rat, stirring an hornet's nest, just being plain naive or an average of all the above. She may know a thing or two about high-flying Kenyan politicians but not how they handle national and grave matters touching on their persona and integrity.

To ask Dr. NM to EXPLAIN what he knows about TJ's death is akin asking Mt. Kenya to relocate to L. Victoria. Our leaders may have blinded her with love but they have no love lost for their motherland (country). They spend all their walking lives cutting deals to cover their bloody tracks. No wonder they wouldn't allow a new generation of leaders whose sense of nationhood is at variance with theirs of preservation of status quo at all costs.

But looked at different, MB take on this is a real blessing to our age. At least we can afford to challenge the big and might and let their inner garments line the streets. May be one thing these former top dogs never contended with is the price they would pay for 'exotic' romance. This is not to demean either Africans or MB herself. An open discussion will reveal that our culture would frown at MB going the whole hog about her previous escapades in public. To these people the noun partner has taken dimension and meaning of its own.

All said there is no free lunch and NM must carry his won cross. If only he would rise to the occasion, we would be left one load light as a nation burdened with a dark past. But will he? You guess is as good as mine. Let us wait and see and time will tell.

Marianne Briner said...

to taabu:
there are many things we disagree -but there are many more we agree.
One - and that's the main one for me to have taken the 'risk' to write this letter, is my love for the people of Kenya. And please don't start again the discussion 'which right does she have to talk like that - she is a foreigner and so on. - Let me assure you that I met many 'Whites' 'Foreigners' who felt and still feel like me ..... so please avoid this topic.
One reason why I have written this Letter - besides the TM subject - was the fact that Uhuru Kenyatta has again made 'peace' with Biwott and seeing them sitting side by side, was the most disgusting sight I have seen for a long time.
Uhuru is like a son for Dr. Mungai and I remember what he told me after the 2002 Elections: 'The boy is too young - give him one or even two terms more to get some political experience and then he will maybe be 'ready' ......... this time it was too early.......'
But seeing Uhuru again in the 'trap' of Moi and mainly Biwott, this is too much ..... so I agree with you, these people never learn .......and making deals is the 'theme' of the day underlining Macchiavelli's saying 'Politic is a dirty game'and if you call Moi a 'Professor of Politics' you could for sure call Biwott the 'Master of the dirtiest part of it'......
But saying this, it does not white-wash others and that's why I wrote to Dr. Mungai. I am not blind or stupid or both ..... but I still have not given up hope. I know that there is a new generation, a generation who knows that the only way out is to change things but at the same time to have the courage to face the past.
I maybe have been blind - with love - but definitely I have also always seen the reality - this you can believe me. That's why a man like Dr. Ouko trusted me .....
So let's see what happens, like you said.
Maybe, Dr. Mungai will not tell us what he knows about TM etc. - but maybe he will see the chance to make a change and to help others - and even if is somebody else than Uhuru - to lead Kenya into a better future.
That's why I have written this letter.
Marianne Briner

kalamari said...

Sue. Your blog is not a ‘raunchy xxxx site’. As a matter of fact, it is a beacon of hope to millions of women (Kenyan and otherwise) whose issues you choose to highlight in a clear and just manner. I think you should be proud of the noble work you selflessly indulge in to address the issues that our patriarchal society choose to conveniently ignore. I can only encourage you to pursue this endeavor to the greatest of heights. In a country where women outnumber men, it’s fundamental that political, social and economic empowerment of the fairer gender becomes a priority. When you choose to challenge women to break the yokes of gender disparities I think you do Kenya a great service. I’m not president, but when I become one, the top honor of the land may be somewhere in the form of “The Golden Order of Sue”. I hold women in the highest of esteem and respect. Ngilu and Ojiambo, though controversial in many ways, are stalwarts in the gender equality struggle. They in fact have inspired many young women to pursue male dominated professions. They are however, public figures.

That said, my point is that your very important blog (and my posts) could be construed to mean anything to anyone at anytime when taken out of context. Like my references to two or three items on your blog, when you pick a few lines on my posts and make unfortunate judgments, you not only open the floodgates of ridicule, but you also loose innocence to impending counterattacks.

The definition and nature of a blog, a free and anonymous one at that, demands that open-mindedness prevails. It is through such avenues that unpopular, politically incorrect, unpalatable views, political or otherwise (those that can never be discussed at a dinner table) are aired in a raw, uncensored and blunt fashion. The reason Chris is currently in hiding (at an undisclosed obscure location I must add) is because he has chosen to challenge the establishment by kicking it where it hurts most. If Chris was frightened to address past and present ills, this blog would be nothing but a blank white page cluttered with letters strewn together to produce words that make some sense once in a while. It is the controversial nature of the topics discussed that continues to draw thousands of people of varied backgrounds, creed, ambitions and goals to this blog. The fact that commentators on this blog are as polarized as the political situation on the ground is in itself controversial.

In the same spirit of diversity of opinion and expression, any restrictions or attempts to censor, edit or sanitize views or how they are delivered may well be Kumekuchas’ Achilles’ heal. In a way, it’s African culture to play with words. Some of our heroes use football commentary to make a point. Others choose ‘hawa, hawa tuu’. Some of our most controversial literary voices have never used names and can indeed defend themselves against treason charges in court. It’s just words, the power of which must be guarded jealously. In a forum where all walks of life are guaranteed a safe mode of expression, a prose or two taking cue from the worlds favorite pastime is nothing to cause heartaches and confusion.

Whereas it is true that behind every anonymous tag, lies a breathing human being complete with emotions, walking away in grief and bewilderment after reading a politically incorrect comment, could be a problem. I mean, nothing is personal here. If everybody was hypersensitive and easily bruised by opposing views or force-fed propaganda, then I would advise you not to attend the proposed “Kumekucha” get together in TZ as chaps will bring real knives, guns and stones. Your life could be in danger. There’s no denial that most writing is done with livid emotions, however, calling people names or agreeing with others who have done so is a sign of loosing emotional control. Whereas I will not offer or expect any apologies, going forward, please read my comments with a tongue-in-cheek.

Otieno said...

Marianne Briner,
Let me ask you a qestion? how much were you charging rich,influental & powerfull kenyans to sleep with them. Do you know you contributed to the misery that is facing many poor kenyans today when you accepted the money & gifts/properties they bought you in Europe.

Dont talk about interest or feelings about kenya as we know that even what you are enjoying today was plundered from kenyans before you earned by sleeping with those men. That is bloodmoney which you earned by sucking the cocks of those men. So please dont fool around with readers here.

Find something else to make money because it seems that now yor cunt is old, tired and incapable of being fucked, you resort to blackmail. The only reason you mention those rich men is after they have refused to silence you with money. You know very well you have nothing to loose & these men have much to loose.

Marianne Briner said...

Reply to 'Otieno':

Before I went into this 'venture' to write the letter, I had been warned that people like you would say all these dirty things about me.
First: I am very proud to say that no man - and I really mean no man -ever paid for me one Dollar, Shilling, Frank etc. - I worked for my money all my life and I am proud to say this.
I know, many people think like you do - but there are also many more who know that this is not true. I had some private money - family money - and I never needed any man to pay for me anything ......
And just in case, you assume that I am a rich woman having made a fortune in Kenya and other countries, you are totally wrong ..... I receive a Pension by the Swiss Government for all the years I worked and paid Social Security and that's it .......
I do not feel to have to 'defend' myself - but I think, I should clarify this point once and for all.
So stop accusing me for having 'robbed' Africa and for being responsible for its misery. Blame your own people - blame certain people in your Government, past and present - and stop trying to find a scape-goat in me... that's too easy and may I also say to cheap ....... use your brains and if you don't have brains enough to see the reality, stop writing this crap ........
MB

luke said...

Justice is an incessant mistress, and she is crying out night and day for her thirst to be quenched-however, unlike luo victim mentality (LVM),we're not talking about perceived or imaginary threats here-this is real
Surely the ghosts of JM, Mboya, Ouko, Pinto,Mbai will not rest? they want named and shamed the ones at whose hands they suffered early and undignified deaths
This is a cause i cannot speak ill of-if i was dead i too would haunt the soul of the ones who sent me to an early grave. It should be pursued and those who are alive should not be allowed to take their secrets to the grave.
Of course they are under no obligation to deny or even defend themselves against truth seekers-march on marianne, lucas,JM&Ouko kin

vikii said...

Ok, very interesting read that one ms MB.

Here now comes my question ma'am: If you have Njoroge Mungai's contacts and u trully want him to attend your round table talks to 'shed light' on the kumekucha-insired Thomas Mboya and Bob Ouko investigations, why dont u invite him privately? As in you have done/discussed stuff before with him, both private and of national importance, like Uhuru's inevitable presidency without us knowing, why do it diferently now?

Please dont bother to answer the above, I already know your answer. If you really wanted to name and shame, why did u not draft the letter and fax it to our newsrooms in Kenya? You could have sent a copy to the Nation Media Group which has a newspaper readership of more than a million a day and an even bigger television viewership. The Standard too can boast of not too small circulation. Infact this latter group would be very happy to do your bidding. I mean it just beats me when u choose an obscure little blog for your very high-stakes revelations and invitations. Will u answer this ma'am?

derek said...

Marianne, honestly, why do you drag such kind of dirt into your path? It is only the seventh post and I do not believe that you can swallow any more. Me, I cannot do that and if it is for integrity, please, please and please again, there is a better way of addressing personal and ‘very personal issues.

You pen-off by reminding someone about your love to him. That is not bad, but to me, all these border on a personal matter that should for any imagined reason be discussed in a very private venue.

I feel that sooner or later, some of the contents of this comment will be dragged from the public view. Why? When people get to their comps and decide to pour all their Monday frustrations, we will all be gulping cold water.

My point and the last one of the post, is, this is a private letter, a love letter in this sense and the best way to address it, it through a very personal way, which includes making a telephone call or even through e-mail as you have said. Kindly, observe friendship and respect it. MB, please be a lady. Let pillow talk be pillow-talk and public consumption should not be connected to this.

Soon, people will start linking this to others in the past and some public declarations from your end and I fear that it is happening.

chris said...

This is crazy.

Here we are watching high drama and history unfold before our very eyes (only time and chance has made it possible) with the best chance so far of getting to the bottom of the murder of a great Kenyan and all guys can do is think with the wrong end of their body.

Otieno. I have no words. That was crude and if you are in the employment of the state (which I suspect) then this is one more reason why we need to "clean" government and our entire leadership. Is that the kind of language you use on your wife and mother? And sister? I think you need psychiatric help and you need it badly.

Marianne. Thank you. One day when the history of our great nation is written your sacrifices and contributions to Kenya will be noted. In my book pretenders are worse than murderers and the fact that you talk frankly about your life in Kenya is a very brave thing to do. No human being is perfect and Otieno may well have written his comment the way he did because he has just come from K-street or Majengo.

Everything about you, Marianne is brave. I fully support what you are trying to do here. And so should every patriotic Kenyan who can think beyond their...

My dear friends, for once in our lives, let us focus on the big picture. PLEASE.

-Kumekucha-

chris said...

Put yourself in the shoes of Lucas Mboya.

What do you think he feels?? Huh?

He never had the privilege of growing up with a dad. And now that there is a small chance that something will come out of it, people like Otino and others come along.

I know this blog is monitored by you know who. But let me ask each of you a question. What if it was Tom Mboya who was your dad, brother, close friend?

Brutually murdered for his principals, and then govt. conveniently makes every effort to bury his memory and label him a Luo leader. How many Luos voted for Mboya in his lifetime?

Oh yes, just name some run down street after him and leave it at that. Kids growing up and people in this blog now DON'T know better and are calling him a Luo leader. Somebody said this blog is dedicated to a Luo leader.

I feel very, very, very sick sometimes...

Why do I even bother to write in this blog every day?

Why do I waste my time?

-Kumekucha-

derek said...

I will reply 'Otieno' becuase Chris has.

Now, this is the apex of illiteracy. If the words you have used in your post are indeed yours, then I dont wish to share such a forum with you.

MB has never said that he was on the game. She has never offended you to get such from you. Is that civility? No, it is not. It is pure lack of education and I pray that you can learn better words that will not offend the women folk who visit this blog.

I know that people might feel proud when they use such 'tough' and hard words, but moderate it. Not that others cannot use them, but simply, we feel that reason stands infront of somethings in life. Otieno, it is a big SHAME. Not the right words.

luke said...

Oh yes,i almost forgot to add this to my section; this is addressed to "Otieno"
Welcome to Kumekucha.Thank you for visiting Chris creation. if you are a first time guest please make yourself at home. However,if this is not your first time then kaa tayari as i temporarily take over from self-appointed e-cop Mwalim Taabu

insults and name calling are the lowest form of earthly intelligence, a man engaging in such is actually devolving in reverse to a lower form of animal being when using the excuse of debating and exchanging views to hurl abuse at another

Although Kumekucha is not heaven on earth(far from it), we have some form of dignity here bwana. Anyone is welcome to argue by bringing forth strong points that win friends or make enemies-but we all draw the line as Kenyans when it comes to banality-bandy that at home to your folks or friends but not here. This is a public forum where no one knows anyone else and its not fair to exchange uncouth unpleasantries with anyone
Engage your wit my brother and show us what you got Otherwise failing to wash out the potty mouth, the www is a large and free resource where one is at liberty to start their own blog if they don't like what they are reading. There you can hurl as much libel as you want-wolves will join you in howling
E-cop, over to you

vikii said...

No Chris. As much as MB is entitled to her right of participation, u should put your money where your mouth is. If u r a gentleman who believes people should not be uncouth when dealing with women then u should warn MB to stop mudslinging. She has better ways of doing whatever it is she is trying to do. In my opinion, and this is a very personal one, she has proved to be not only a woman of extremely loose morals, but one with a kiddish brain. Am sorry if that stings.

Now Chris u dont need to defend her by telling us we are thinking wth the wrong end of the body. If u really can defend this primitive handling of one's former lovers then you need to change the OBJECT in your very inflammatory sentence. I am sure my sister, my mother, my girlfriend, your daughter and even Mrs. Kumekucha herself would tell you that that's not how ladies behave. MB has a duty to behave like a lady and a respectable one at such.

And Chris I am telling you something from the bottom of my heart. If Mboya was my father, I would never want him exposed to all this ridicule. I mean kumekucha is not some scottland yard or some other detective--Pretending to do justice to the Mboya family is not necessary and this is something I expect Lucas himself to understand. He is only opening his late father for attack because for heavens sake his father was a politician. Lucas should not expect to link his father's death with politics and get away with the heat generated from political accusations. I hate to say this because I dont like getting personal with one's family members but the truth of the matter is that Tom Mboya, a very respectable African, was not perfect and we all including Lucas know it. He may have been a perfect dad, family man and generally a perfect man BUT no, Tom Mboya as a leader/politician had flaws.

I am the one who said the blog is dedicated to a Luo. U can take it out of context if u wish but that doesnt change the fact that he was indeed luo. I was responding to an article which was about how special it is to be luo. I just pointed to those who shout loudest about being discriminated against what kind of introverts they are, always at the centre of calling out for mercy while busy spraying everybody else with mud. It may have hurt and I am sorry if it did.

Otieno's words or even mine may be abit uncivil but I will take you through the same path Chris. Imagine if Njoroge Mungai or Jeff Koinange was your father or brother.
Marrianne Brinner has to behave. Period

Marianne Briner said...

to vikii:

first, I have seen you writing to this blog many times - now all of the sudden it becomes an obscure little blog ???? Why now ???? Why did you 'waste' your time sending your comments before to such an 'obscure' venue ???? Or is this just your way to insult people???????
Second - I know Dr. Mungai and I know that only an Open Letter and not a nice private one may let him out into the open ..... that's why I have chosen this way. There was no other way - believe me, I thought about it quite some time before deciding on this way.
Third: Why do you minimize the influence a blog has these days - sometimes they are more powerful than a newspaper like Nation or Standard because people realize that they are backed up and/or even financed by certain individuals and their interest. A blog is a modern and independent source of information and where else do you have the possibility to send your - sometimes even more than stupid and offending - comments and can even be sure that they will be published?
So one advise: don't underestimate blogs and never again call them 'obscure' ....... if you really feel like that, I would suggest you keep quiet from now on and direct your anger and frustration into other directions .......

MB

Taabu said...

Emotions truly rule (and will definitely ruin) us Kenyans. We often jump to anything sensational no matter the cost provided our selective and subjective convenience is superlatively served. Just scroll up the above posts and see almost all are exclusively addressing (in fact attacking) MB's life. If only we could direct te same amount of focus, vigour and passion to making Kenya better. But I would be top the list of naivety to even imagine that.

Why would I tell MB to call NM? Simple, I am a Kenya suffering selective amnesia. The same way I will shout that I need to report the Artus to cops if I have info about them. Come of chaps have the decency to at least disguise your deceptions.

If you think Nation media group is the angel God sent to save Kenya then you better start courting Lucifer. NMG is only running on its limited good past. And it is a matter of time before they are smoked for hypocrisy. The death knell will sound with a bang soon. Marley couldn't be more right - YOU NAC FOOL SOME PEOPLE SOME TIME BUT NOT ALL (KENYANS) ALL THE TIME. And that is not to lend any trace of credence to the Std. But again 2 wrongs never made a right, or do they?

Let's visit the basic on the role and objective of blogs. Chris publishes what mainstream won't touch with 10m pole. MB is not naive to call NM knowing before hand what the response and reaction would be. That thinking is like telling Chris to report the Masaai Mara land scam to KACC.

Please good people let us understand the meaning of an open letter. Its principal purpose is to smoke out response from unwilling office or person. You write it when you know the addressee has the answer. The catch is to let him/her suffer psychological guilt that the rest knows and expects an response. No rocket science, or is it? I hold no brief for MB but truth never mutates no matter the teller or time.

We are latently hurting Lucas Mboya by going for diversions. At least MB has done something in own her way. Don't attack the messenger, address the message PLEASE.

NB: To Bw. Otieno at least I can buy him OMO sachet with POWERFOAM for his foul mouth. I can bet my lunch tomorrow that his words never benefited from his mental sieve. What a disgrace to menfolk. At least we have our mums and sisters to disabuse us of this baseness. Why fill the shell (burden) resting on your shoulders with HOT AIR? Pepo mbaya ishindwe.

Taabu said...

NB 2: This is for Otieno. Why do you abuse the beauty of what makes your head? Look brother, blogs have their readership and here these Kenyan sisters ad brother operate under unwritten rule: NO OBCENITIES? INPRINTABLES. If you want places to visit worth your PRIMITIVE outbursts, contact Chris na tutafanya harambee na Google to direct you elsewhere.

If you are man enough then you owe us a prompt apology for slighting our collective intelligence. But I already know you won't so take a walk and continue burdening your posterior with cheap village matusi.

Stop cheap thinking using you projection and fantasising partnering with depressions. Finally take this to the bank: WHEN A FELLOW HUMAN RESORTS TO REASONING WITH THE LOWER FACULTIES THEN THE ZOOS ARE THREATENED WITH EXTINCTION. Your head must be the most expensive because its underused. We don't need here.

vikii said...

Marianne Brinner calm down. I am not here to exchange words with u. Do u get me lady? U are quickly becoming a very good student of Kumekucha-----Taking things out of context. Kumekucha is a blog with a respectable readership and I have no intentions whatsoever to belittle it. That is in essence the reason I have spent a very valuable chunk of my time to read it and even post comments. My reference of it as obscure was in comparison to the mainstream media. Chris himself has refered to Kenya, my country, as an obscure third world country when comparing it with states. If U wanted a loud pulic announcement about the good old times with Njoroge and your invitaton of him to your Geneva talks, then The nation and KTN would have the perfect media of conveyance.

I am not frustrated at anything ma'am. I am a young and handsome man with a very big and bright future ahead of me. At least until now, I have had and accomplished most of what I would wish for in life and I am sorry if I appear arrogant. Including the two words 'Frustration' and 'Vikii' in the same sentence is grossly wrong. Marianne brinner I dont know you in person but from the little I know about u I can say here and now with a very high confidence interval that no one personifies frustration better than u. I am yet to meet a lady ur age with such a low self esteem. And again why respond to me with such fury? Choosing to concentrate in the little details of Kumekucha's obscurity while avoiding the concerns I raised is all too farmiliar to me. Cant wont deter.

I still dont get it friend. Why not fax a copy of this letter to the kenyan newsrooms? It is absolutely free to fax. You can also email them incase you do not have access to a fax machine.

Anonymous said...

Oh when the saints (and their faithful underdogs) come matching in!

How else do you guys expect 'Chris' to generate traffic for this blog, huh? And finally become a Luo president in Kenya?

Marianne Briner said...

I fully agree with taabu... if this is all which comes out of Chris proposal for a roundtable, a man like Dr. Mungai and others will laugh their head off 'why loose time with bickering children'.
Why don't you focus on the goal - and I carefully avoid using the word 'we' in this otherwise I fear another polemic session is starting about me.
If you don't mind, leave me out of all this - talk to each other instead - find solutions or try to find them - together - and not making one idea more previous than the other.
Why should this not be possible?

So this is my last post in this matter - maybe in going into 'offside' you folks come to your senses in the interest of Kenya.

Is this not why and how this whole issue has started?

So do it - think before talking....

MB

Taabu said...

Vikii Stop it PLEASE x 3. It is degenerating to personal. And you know as I do that large confidence interval implies inaccurate. Or if you meant narrow then the CI may be very accurate for a wrong model/hypothesis. Meanwhile let your horse take a deserved rest, ama? - BB

vikii said...

And Taabu, that drive from Manchester yesterday must have been a very rough one. I am sure you have a ticket in your pocket and that's why I understand your current mood. You'll get over it in a couple of days and that's when I'll impress upon u the need to view The Nation differently. I know you have read it 20 years before I was born but that changes nothing bro.

Quick recovery though.

MB please tell me, who is not thinking here? I guess it all depends on where u stand and please dont revoke your invitation for Dr. Mungai. Those of us who are bickering children will opt out just to make sure u guys have real fun. I am not out to spoil anybody's party.

kalamari said...

Otieno - For the risk of being kalamarized, please avoid four letter words. As a matter of fact, brush your teeth with extremely foamy soap going forward. Rinse with acid thereafter. Whereas I will forever fight for free speech and freedom of expression, your version of the struggle confines you to a room of no ideas or tact. Now that we know you as a k-street/majengo visiting NSIS agent, look back, up, left and right then run very fast ahead…. like a cat on fire.

Chris, MB is a lot of things to many Kenyans. To love or loathe her experiences within the circles of political power in Kenya is normal. The expectation that her view, as aired on this blog, is the last cog on the wheel of justice that will see Ouko’s killers behind bars is debatable.

If indeed her blog articles/posts can be reproduced in a court of law to successfully reopen closed murder cases, then I fully support and commend her efforts. In fact, you should begin serializing her book on Kumekucha (actually why hasn’t that crossed your mind yet). It will be a disservice to all Kenyans if MB was denied a chance to turn over the remaining unturned stones. Even those shouting her down here will collectively change their tune and embrace this dear and heroic lady. The truth is that we’ve seen enough blood in Kenya and the matter must be addressed with the seriousness it deserves. Remember that leaders like Raila who have the brevity to face assassins will not always be with us. Political assassinations must end. If MB can assist Kenya to solve this murder, thereby creating a precedent of murder solutions to come, then we should have her statue replace that of Dedan Kimathi. That’s the type of deterrent needed.

If on the other hand her views are on high gear, speeding towards a dead end street, then I think we risk trivializing an issue that many Kenyans hold very dear. The casual manner with which MB (and by extension you) present such issues might turn out to be a fundamental failure to those seeking justice and cover from the bullets of Margayan and his bespectacled brother. It goes beyond saying that the courts in Kenya are as dead end as you can get. However, there are international courts of good standing. Just the other day, some chap filed a murder case against the govt. in Canada. If MB is your friend, your service to Kenya must involve encouraging her to present her evidence in court.

The painful truth is that the internet/blog reaches very few Kenyans (the 10% I talked of way earlier). To be meaningful in the fight against mamluks, MB must look for ways of reaching a broader audience. Her book is great start. Highly sensationalized stories on international news outlets is another avenue. Damn, I forgot about JK.

vikii said...

Taabu large CI may also mean a high probability. The normal distribution curve best explains it.

I have nothing against her. It's over ut she should not attempt emotion. That's the last thing u want to introduce after tarnishing people's names and careers

kenyaone said...

I found the comments of one vikii very interesting as copied below.

'If Mboya was my father, I would never want him exposed to all this ridicule. I mean kumekucha is not some scottland yard or some other detective--Pretending to do justice to the Mboya family is not necessary and this is something I expect Lucas himself to understand. He is only opening his late father for attack because for heavens sake his father was a politician. Lucas should not expect to link his father's death with politics and get away with the heat generated from political accusations. I hate to say this because I dont like getting personal with one's family members but the truth of the matter is that Tom Mboya, a very respectable African, was not perfect and we all including Lucas know it. He may have been a perfect dad, family man and generally a perfect man BUT no, Tom Mboya as a leader/politician had flaws.

Let me try and answer those concerns. Firstly, Tom Mboya was not your father so what you would do in the same situation is neither here nor there. Secondly I am not exposing him to ridicule. Anyone who comes out from an informed point of view such as mine will undoubtedly get good and bad (ridicule) comments. These are also a result not merely of malice but just as well lack of information. More to the point though. I am the oldest surviving son of Tom Mboya. If I remain silent then thats it. Nobody else will speak, at least nobody else is obliged to. I took a chance. I weighed my options and I will pay whatever consequences. This I will carry with consumate ease. I fear nobody and nothing. I do not fear ridicule or criticism. Let it be constructive and i can deal with it. I respect your point of view and your opinions. The fact is that I opted to use this forum because I felt I had a person in Chris who had a genuine interest in my father and that was not prompted by me. Actually Chris advised me to send the statement to the mainline press but i have declined. My experience with them is that it would be used to score commercial and or political points that expose mboya to far more ridicule that anything in this blog. In any case none of them would carry the statement verbatim but would mix and match to put words and ideas in their readers heads. At no time vikii have i insinuated that Mboya was a clean man. I believe that to be the case but am mature enough to know that i do not know all he did or thought. Thats why i opted to use anothers words (as far as possible) Nevertheless. I am confident that my father did want to use power to the larger benefit of the Kenyan people. If he were as rapacious as Kenyattas inner circle then they would not have needed to rid themselves of him, that much is clear. So despite your spectacular reasoning I will nevertheless look with more circumspection on your comments which are appreciated. I guess being honest is the best foot forward. Being right can come after that. My aim is one. Slowly but surely make it clear to those who killed Mboya that it will not go away. This murder will be with them till they themselves are lowered into their own graves. If I can deny them peace I will. Their only way out is to come out and say it or support the drive for a truth and reconcilliation commission where i can face them directly. I want to look them (Him) in the eyes and I want him to know that I know that he killed my father. I want him to know that the only thing that prevents me from killing him is that then I would become like him. Worthless, rotten and perverted to the core. A loser whose mental faculties cannot stand up to the fact that there are better persons than himself.

So I hope this somewhat clears the air and no hard feelings.

Many people read this blog and I know that many have read the statemnt and is so far as that is the case then im making progress. Mine is to thank chris for his blog and all of you who visit and comment. I learn alot and that will be to my benefit it the future.

Lucas Mboya

vikii said...

Mr. Lucas Mboya I perfectly understand where u r coming from. It is painful to lose your father and worse still to have him murdered by people you know or atleast u think u know. That's why I am willing to let u go on with anything that may uncover the real perpetrators of that sinful act and make them pay for it. If that can be achieved then I will ebe the happiest man on earth.

Having said that, I will let you know that I am one of the most open and honest people alive. U find my views 'spectacularly interesting' and i respect the fact that u r entitled to your own feelings about them. I am sure u understand English very well unlike me and if u do, then u agree with me 'if' is conditional. Contrary to what u want to think, I am not wishing Mboya was my father, no brother. That's not my prayer dude. Chris started his comment, the one i was responding to with the words "Put yourself in Lucas Mboya's shoes'. That is the ONLY reason I put myself in them.

Having said that Tom Mboya was a national leader in Kenya and I am still maintaining we should applaud him and others who fought for the country's independence. As a Kenyan too I am entitled to my views on him as a leader and any time his name is mentioned in any political discussions, I cannot and WILL NEVER shy away of saying what I think of him. I will give credit where it is due and If he had any role in bringing the country in the mess it is in, I will say it. It is very unfortunate u r using the Kenyattas of this world as a benchmark of how good he was. But you should know that a public leader is open to scrutny and criticism. Just to let you know, Kenyatta and others have sons too.

I am sorry if I sound insensitive but the same way John Garang's death, JFK asassination and Kabila's are discussed, Tom Mboya's will too. As in both sides.

Thanks for 'answering those concerns'

luke said...

let no one think that the justice Marianne Briner and Lucas Mboya seek is in vain-it is not. I for one stand up to loudly applaud them, their desires and actions in wanting to expose the truth, even as it disturbs their souls, leave them restless and hungry for justice
To ask them to stop their crusade will be akin to asking a man to cease and desist in pursuing a woman he loves-why? because he may not get her in the end-i ask you does that matter? its that personal satisfaction that will rest easy in the bosom of the an individual who has done all they could to marry the ideals in their heart with the harsh world they wake up to morning after morning

In future Marianne and Lucas, history will record that you played your part and as a result of the steps you took and sacrifices you made, the murderers of Robert J Ouko and Tom Mboya were finally known, exposed and brought to book even in death.
But now you know the sad facts my dear truth seekers-most Kenyans just don't care that the moral equation ought to be balanced with good eventually triumphing over evil;forgive them and try understand-its because they have been so whipped by life in Kenya prior to 2002 that now a little so called "economic growth" is now making children of Nyayo torture house chambers forget their moral obligations in life

Justice be our shield and defender

Marianne Briner said...

Contrary to wgat I have said before, the comment by Lucas Mboya got me back to just make one more comment.
I am glad and honored that you joined this blog. You reminded me of the two youngest sons of Dr. Ouko who have lost their father at about the same age. I know what they felt and still feel and that's what you must have gone through too.
I have met your mother at several functions (must have been in 1979/80) and I admired her style and intelligence and mainly her warm and open smile. Especially one occasion is still in my memory. It was in the Bomas of Kenya and must have been some UN-Function. There we had time to sit down and talk a little bit, also private things. She may not remember - but I do.
I also understand your desire to face the murder(s) of your father face to face. I had the same feeling when during my Evidence in November 2004 in front of the Sunguh-Committee Mutula Kilonzo asked in the name of his client, Daniel arap Moi, to cross-examinen me. Although the rules did not allow this, I agreed under the condition that Mr. Moi was sitting next to him since I wanted to look into his eyes and see his face when answering Mutula's questions. But of course, he did not have the courage and after two days Mutula took back his request for cross-examinations.
So much to this point.... and that's also one reason why I am not having hope to ever be able to set-up a Reconciliation Committee. These people (Moi, Njonjo, Mungai, Biwott etc.) will never appear. And to talk about Biwott and in a certain way also Moi - both implicated by Scotland Yard for the killing of Dr. Ouko - Biwott even accused to have pulled the trigger himself - not even Scotland Yard had the power and influence to get the Kenyan Judiciary to open the case with a Parliament refusing to even discuss the outcome of the Sunguh-Committee.
You see, I am quite realistic about all this. I have spent more than 15 years fighting, risked a lot and lost even more (and I am not talking about money only).
But I don't want to accept that these people have won (Moi being appointed a 'Peace Missionary' which is already a joke by itself, Biwott coming back into the political limelight and for sure you will find him as a Member of the Government after the next Elections even with Raila as President - just wait and see and mark my words - and Njonjo and Mungai retired, but extremely rich......). etc. etc.
I do not know where you are living, but maybe we could meet one day somewhere. If you feel the same, ask Chris for my address and even telephone number. I herewith give him the permission to pass them to you.
I hope your mother is still well and alive - so please pass also my best wishes to her, if possible.
Yours,
Marianne Briner

P.S. To all the others: I am not revoking the invitation to Dr. Mungai - on the contrary. After Lucas Mboya's comment I more than ever convinced that we should try everything possible to have the possibility to get him to accept.

Proud Kikuyu Woman said...

Phil, you said there was no catch, alas, you were lying!
I can imagine 'Chris' and Co. will admonish me strongly for saying this as a woman.But I can't hold my questions;

1) Why right now, and precisely months before the election?
2) Like I've asked before, why justice only for Luos? Why Dr Mungai (read Kikuyu) of all the lovers? Moi was on the list of lovers and is still pretty powerful.There is another idea you could write a post on.
3) Marianne, why the divisive justice? You were so suspiciously quick in picking 'Chris's' 'wild idea' and suggesting venues and visa arrangements for people to travel to that neutral location it leaves me wondering, whats in it for you apart from seeing Kikuyus and Luos fight?

4) You appointed yourself the ref and are almost succeeding in playing 'us' against each other. Quit it!Could we have a neutral 'referee'.Marianne, I feel I should respect you the same way I should my mother if only for your age,as you are about 15 years older but respect is never conferred, it is EARNED. Back in your days, you cut your deals and won many Kenyan government contracts.In no less than two consecutive but equally horrible regimes as you revealed very conveniently after WE voted them (your 'former' cronies) out. You got your contracts , made your money in our country and left, and are now comfortably living in Italy. Suddenly you have reincarnated as a saviour and are setting a truth and reconciliation committee.For the same country. Prosecuting the same men you slept with while they robbed us. You?! Since you personally confessed to sleeping with all these men.......do you honestly see how difficult it is for me to imagine you genuinely care?

I suggest Chris and Co. wait for the ballots because I'm still convinced this is more about a Raila (read Luo) presidency than anything.

Oh, Marianne and 'Chris', Switzerland is known the world over for its humanitarian tradition-red cross and all- but sadly its the same place where most of the stolen and irregularly acquired money in the world is stashed away, leading to the suffering of millions of people. I suggest you re-think your concepts of neutrality.Or while there form another commission of inquiry about possible money stolen from Kenyans and buried there.

Proud Kikuyu Woman said...

I sometimes put myself in Marianne's shoes, going back and forth about the possibility that all the bad things I've done in my life are rubbed on my face every time I try to help. And people, some more than forty years younger than me told me how utterly useless I am in contributing to their own good, not mine.

But then again, I think that matters of national or tribal importance should he treated with the care they deserve. And hope that you Marianne can for a moment put yourself in my shoes and see what I see from where I stand. (I wonder if its a classical case of the sticker-writing on the face-me matatus I use when going home-A cow is always a cow, no matter what angle you look at it from?)Because you have never suffered under a bad regime, just benefitted, how justly is a question whose answer that you know in your heart and can't deny to yourself-and I'm not likely to believe you in a million years.Please understand.

I'm very confused as I go to bed tonight. Am I too judgmental? Why then do we need even a commission of inquiry, if we are not to be judgmental? In case it is OK to sit pretty (Phil!) and judge others, what's the difference between having Marianne chair the said meeting, and having Moi or Biwott appoint themselves as the chairs of a truth and reconciliation committee in Kenya.

Suggested solution; lets get a 'clean' and I mean positively and thoroughly neutral team.People who have had zero government connections before. At this point I personally don't care where they are from-region, tribe, even colour. And, lets keep politics out of it all (should we still wait is another question)My mind is made up and you'd have an easier time walking on Mars exactly as you are in the next five minutes than converting me to a tribal voter within the next several years.

John K. said...

Proud lady stated: "Suggested solution; lets get a 'clean' and I mean positively and thoroughly neutral team.People who have had zero government connections before."

Ever wonder what happened to the Ouko inquiry and why it did not make any traction? If the Chairman was not a high profile person he would have been long eliminated. While the above is ideal, its wishful thinking. We got Ringera who is supposed to be clean at KACC and he cannot dare touch the same masters. The ordinary Kenyan will essentially be signing over their life and more on a platter should they attempt to stick their nose where they the masters have deemed no one should. It takes a lot of guts to expose certain matters including accepting the possibility of death as a possible outcome.

Marianne Briner said...

Honestly speaking, I was already missing Proud Kikuyu 'Woman''s comments - but now here they are. In other words, you did not disappoint me.
I did not say, I would be a referee - I only said, I would help to organize such venue (roundtable) - Switzerland is also no condition, just an idea.
It's up to you - Kenyans - to decide where and when and if I can help and you ask me, I will. Nothing less and nothing more. - Hope this settles this question.
I mentioned in my last comment addressed to Lucas Mboya, Mutula Kilonzo's request for cross-examination and that it was cancelled because I insisted that Moi should be present 'I want to look into his face and his eyes when aswering and I will not only reply to his lawyer's questions, but I will put my own ones. And that's why he has to be present: because only he knows all the circumstances, only he can therefore give us the final answers'......
Does this reply to your doubts 'why Mungai, a Kikuyu - why not Moi?' - because I know the outcome: the same like in the Sunguh-Committee case: He is Mr. Untouchable - like for Goldenberg and other cases.
And coming back to Mutula Kilonzo (beware, he wants to be A-G in the next Government). After his request for a cross-examination was dropped, Sunguh passed to me the list of questions Mutula wanted to ask (I even have the original signed for acceptance). Here question No. 10 is very interesting and should be a point of dicussion for the Roundtable and maybe before in some Open Forums. The exact wording is as follows:
"Do all ministerial conflicts or disagreements end in assassinations?"

And then maybe also questions No. 12 and 13 - judging me to be an 'expert' in Kenyan politics:

No. 12: Do Ministers have a right to differ with their colleagues?
No. 13: Can you describe the role of Ministers in Kenya?

I regard No. 10 as the most important since it could apply not only to Dr. Ouko but also to Tom Mboya and JM Kariuki.

And one other thing: don't make the mistake to regard this as a mere Election Campaign. Don't low yourself to this point and even take it back on tribal issues. There is so much more at stake than that .......
If you really want to make a change, that is......
And last but not least, you said that I never 'experienced' anything bad, only took the good sides in Kenya.
Here - as in some other things - you are totally wrong. If you would have followed my Evidence in Nairobi, you would know better:
- I survived a food poisening (I still suffer from Hepatitis B because of this),
- I narrowly escaped death when a car without lights was charging at me and thanks to my female bodyguard I escaped only with a dislocated shoulder when she pulled me out of the way,
- and when all this did not succeed to get me out of Kenya, Biwott asked for my deportation and via the CID I was declared Persono non Grata and put on a plane without any luggage (which only some weeks later and thanks to an influential Uganda friend (John Kazzora) was sent dispatched to Switzerland. This was in April 1981 -
- and in spite of all this, I came back because I wanted to help (not for private reasons as you will for sure now shout).
- I knew I was taking a big risk again and as I now found out all my steps were carefully monitored. My telephones were bugged (at that time - 1986 - 1990 - mobile phones were not working in Kenya) and even cameras hidden in my hotel rooms .....
The same happened to my business partner: he was deported and chased out of Kenya (March 1989).
- After this my office in Dar-es-Salaam (BAK was also registered in Tanzania) was raided and we found out that only all Kenyan files were missing ... so the thiefs were exposed .... then the tyres of our car were cut .... warnings written over the windows 'get out of Africa or ....' etc. etc.
- and in Switzerland I received phone calls and even written messages warning me to stop talking (that was after Dr. Ouko was killed) and also threatening my daughter. I went to the Swiss Police and made a Report. They checked on the matter and then gave me the strong advise to go 'into hiding' for some time, better even to live outside Switzerland. So my daughter finished her studies (she is now Dr. med. vet) in Paris and I moved to Spain (not Italy as you suggested).
- but even here I was not safe. I had to move several times. Now I got my telephone connected via satellite, it is not registered making it more difficult to find out where I am living.
- and when I gave Evidence now in Nairobi, the same happened again: the telephones and this time even my handy was bugged and the GSU-girls had been instructed to make detailed reports about what I was saying and whom I was talking to and who came to visit me.
Conclusion: never again tell me that I only took the 'good' and don't know the 'bad' - believe me, I do ........
In telling you all this, I am not asking for your understanding or even compassion. I am strong and I will survive - didn't I show this with JK ?
MB

Bereta said...

Ati this Mungai guy--who is he anyway convinced Kenyatta to appoint Ouko a minister in his gove!!!!---get your facts right Brainless woman.
MB, I told you to go look for Tony Blair-- he's got lots of chums on him now and he might fancy some old @#$%..You could even get lucky and accompany him to the middle east where you will have an opportunity to serve loads of peacekeepers--they've got loads of cash too!!!
I dont know much about Tom Mboya--i don't know him and i dont want to know him...the history i read was enough... so i wont comment on this issue but i must say there are lots of misleading issues on some of the posts on this blog.
Clearly people are out to serve their own personal agendas....

Anonymous said...

Kenya does not need people like you - stupid and ignorant. That's what has brought our country down: people like you. If you want to unleash your dirty language, go and talk to your friends because they are for sure the same like you since whow else wants to deal with 'dirt'. Admitting that you neither know anything about Tom Mboya and the power a man like Dr. Mungai had, shows your low level of intelligence. Go back to where you come from and stay there. Kenya does not need you.

kenyaone said...

No worries vikii.

I beg the indulgence of this forum to vent a little more. The reason why these assassinations must be brought to public attention and resolved has far reaching implications for the future governance of this country. I admit that I have a selfish interest in the same, but so I should have. Additionally I grew up with a number of close friends whom I have know for the last 30 odd years including, Bill Omamo jnr (who claims he will run for Rarieda seat in December, lets see) The Honourable (though am not sure any MP is honourable) Sammy Weya (Siaya Alego) and Kenneth Ouko (son to the late). In Kens’ case I can say without reservation that having known him for 30 years I can personally attest to the toll his fathers murder has taken on him (personally) and his family as one of his best friends. I knew him before and after. On that, out of deference to him I will say no more.

So I have more than immediate personal reasons for pursuing this agenda.

But the implications I speak of are such as, the first 3 political assassinations (are there others?) were during the Kenyatta regime and no doubt perpetrated by that dastardly inner circle, on Pinto, Mboya and JM. Unfortunately these were to entrench a Kikuyu elite.

How long will it be before other communities who may or may not come to power, since we know that’s what Kenyan Politics has boiled down to, feel that to protect their interests they can employ the same methods. This we saw during the Moi era in the case of Ouko, and more recently in the Kibaki era with the murder of Mbai (which to me smacks of Government complicity).

So far though assassinations have been limited to the powerful, targeting perceived threats. This could change. If these murders are not brought to closure it leaves a gap for individuals or communities that feel they have been unfairly targeted to decide to ‘even the score’

In an assassination perpetrated by the state, the powers that be feel confident enough to manage the consequences. This may be the case to date. But it may not always be so. What those powers do not have the foresight to realize is that all situations have a threshold and after that rapid and uncontrollable deterioration may follow.

What I mean is this. The weak fear using the same tactics because they realize they cannot manage the consequences. But eventually as with all people, communities, a breaking point is reached. At this stage the desire to strike back overwhelms the concerns about managing the consequences (this is otherwise known as anarchy). At this point even those in powerful positions may themselves become targets. When this occurs rapidly across two closely matched (sometimes for different reasons e.g Rwanda) the results can be catastrophic.

Fortunately Kenyas’ fledgling democracy was strong enough to overcome the backlash of the Mboya murder where Kikuyus were being targeted by Luos. How long can this situation pertain. If there was another political assassination today, would Kenya hold together? That’s the question. If the thought frightens you then all the more reason for a Truth and Reconciliation commission.

If bitterness and resentment is allowed to fester too long then inevitably this is the direction Kenya will be heading.

Allow me to digress but with a lesson in mind. In the last year I have traveled to Lodwar, Moyale, Mandera, Wajir, Garissa, Maralal, Marsabit, Ijaara, Hola and other marginalized areas.

Did you know that Isiolo is not even the centre of Kenya, that is Archers Post some 90 clicks further north. A line drawn horizontally across Kenya through Archers post leaves 2 thirds of Kenya above it. That is the bulk of Kenyas political and commercial awareness is concentrated in only a third of the country.

You will see where I am going with this. The Borana and Gabbra communities have a level of hostility towards each other that I do not know exists anywhere on earth (How many planes and helicopters crash at Marsabit airstrip). The things these communities have done to each other cannot even be mentioned in this forum, The Turbi Massacre a few years ago is case in point. A similar hatred fosters between the Pokot and the Samburu (the Turkana and Rendile to have their issues but to a lesser degree).

In these areas people will ask you if you come from Kenya 1 such is the neglect they feel from central Government. The point is that the atrocities there communities have perpetrated against each other go back to before independence. Without a Truth and Reconciliation Commision how will these communities work out their issues?

We keep hearing about the cattle raids, killings and so on. Believe you me. Without the intervention of the provincial Administration there would be a full fledged war in parts of the Northern districts.

Now picture a complete breakdown in trust between Kikuyu and Luo (and not these two communities alone this is just an example), add to that proliferation of arms on par with the Northern districts and you can begin to see the potential for chaos. Sure there are other factors but mine is just to point out the potential of things going wrong if we do not act to heal this nation. Possibly nothing may happen, but should we take the risk. That’s the question.

I have a deep passion for guns, my favourite is the Hech and Kohler G3 standard issue for Nato. This assault weapon (Chris would know where this comes from) can fire 600 rounds per minute of 7.62mm ammunition. The rounds travel at 300 m per second, that’s 3 times the speed of sound. A Smith and Wesson .38 is about half that firepower. This was the weapon of choice for Njenga. I feel that bullet going through my chest every day.

My weapon of choice for an assassination would be a M16 that fires a 5.56 mm round. Slightly less powerful that a G3 but less recoil and hence better accuracy. This with mounted NcStar laserscopes and a silencer would be ideal for covert work. In the right hands this weapon would pass through the ‘thick’ skulls of 3 people in a line 1.5 kms away.

Nairobi is a snipers paradise. Lots of high buildings, Massive traffic and a corrupt populace. You can see the kind of thoughts that go through the mind of a person who has been subjected to this kind of trauma without any form of release.

Lucas

Otieno said...

First my heart goes to Lucas who is seeking justice for a matter that touches him personally. This blog a bringing the sad issue of Mboya assassination for political reasons. Its anti-kikuyu and will not help resolving the matter.

To Marianne, whats cheap between dragging dirty linen about your illicit sexual relationships with the high & mighty of Kenya or telling you the truth? Come on what I wrote down is nothing compared to your sordid descriptions about sex on you blog that were published here by Kumekucha. So stop pretending to be holier than thou. Yes, you sucked cocks and swallowed cum of those men. You are just bitter that these guys cant give you attention now, go finger yourself or use a dildo. At least it will assist you.

To Chris, Kalamari,Luke taabu and others dont pretend to be holier than thou. I stand by my words, this woman was a whore who used to target corrupt, powerful & rich Kenyans. They used to buy her gold, properties and other gifts because of her pussy. So please don't make this look like a Sunday school blog . In any case why didn't you condemn her language that she described here some months back - stop being selective. Stop acting moral police to judge who is right or wrong here which is not define in the first place.

Chris if you think i have a problem , am sorry - go look yourself in a mirror & see whether you have a problem. I have no problem myself.

Proud Kikuyu Woman said...

Nice prose Marianne (could sell a book!), but here is exactly how you end it;"I am strong and I will survive - didn't I show this with JK ?"
This is not about YOU and your quest for vengeance and destruction of people's careers madam. Some of these people whose love affairs with you you never tire of trumpeting (they have since moved on!) have lived their lives, are really old and so have nothing to lose -like Moi is in his 80s- their names stink, I don't think they can go lower. All we want is truth and justice. You are not impartial, and you and I are reading from different scripts. We clearly have very different agenda.

You are also playing victim just like your Luo puppets. Part of me doesn't believe you. Totally.I maintain we have no one with blood money on their bloody record on the said round-table.You are skirting around the issue of how you won your government contracts. Or was sex enough, no money changed hands? That's bad enough, lady, even by my standards. You said you will only participate IF and WHEN we asked you. I never read anyone asking you to be there.Then you storm in and take over a 'wild idea' just like that and think we will sit pretty (ha ha ha Phil!) and make this another version of 'Chris'-MB vs JK affair. I personally want NOTHING to do with you on this 'wild idea'. If my opinion and those of others count,and if anyone is listening, shall we have someone with no Marianne Briner on this?

John K, you are essentially saying that we have the killers prosecute the killers. Pwaguzi aprosecute pwagu, jameni?? Tangu lini?You might as well call in Moi to be chair.

I don't remember the guy who did not give Biwott a chance to speak, vehemently accusing him of being the killer and crying like a baby (I feel his pain, but you see how this only hurt the cause?). And now you are asking someone who evidently still stuck up on Dr. Mungai to be the referee in the round table? Think!

'Chris', this 'wild idea out there' was meant to be a meeting of Kumekuchans, how fast it developed into a truth and reconciliation committee organized, chaired and refereed by Marianne should leave anyoneone with a functional brain.....wondering. So you guys did not collabo in bringing down JK, you just happend to have her phone # and email, and the right to dish them out to politically corrrect (again, Luo!) 'contacts'? Hmmm, Mr I-had-nothing-to-do-with-it guy.Phil, thanks for chickening out but hopefully you are reading this."....I don't like that MB woman for too much sexual escapades....."

Lucas, sorry it was your dad, but do you think he would be proud of you if you effected the scenario you just described, in his name?

Phil said...

Very interesting.

PKW, what gives you reasons to call Luos puppets? Luos are being dragged into this without any reason whatsoever. I note you and MB 'are reading from a different script' but I am please asking you to withdraw that unfortunate remark.

I really do not know the details of how Kenyatta's government used to work, and I cant claim to have known the personalities therein. For that reason, I am reserving my comments.

And PKW, before you ask Lucas if his dad would be proud if he did what he describes in his comment, why dont you first condemn (without looking at their ethnic origin) those well known current and former power-brokers who have been facilitating elimination of political enemies in Kenya. Victims like Mboya, Pinto, Kariuki, Ouko, Mbai, etc would probably be alive today if it wasnt for these power-brokers. I support Lucas 100% in his quest for the truth! Even if it takes MB leading us to that truth.

Chris, congratulations. Quality and quantity of recent postings in this blog has just made me add KUMEKUCHA as a home page in my browser. Please add a feature that will automatically update the page after a few minutes, as I am having problems keeping up.

And I cant help but remind you that a few months ago we discussed the issue of a TRC in order to heal this country. Am glad Lucas Mboya, as a victim, is also proposing the same.

vikii said...

I supported a Truth and Reconcilliation Commission right after the 2002 elections. That would have been the right time for such because the government was enjoying the trust of Kenyans and even some principal political players were on the same page with the Kiraitus of this world. Now a Truth and Concilliation will be conveniently converted into a political conversion forum. 'Mwai Kibaki and his Kikuyu basket of friends are targeting your people'. Does it sound familiar?

Mr. Mboya, I told u I understand your concern in all this. May be I would be pursuing the path u r if my dad was assasinated (I am very careful with my language mark u) BUT I am afraid not everybody in your bus is in it for the same reasons. I know who the masters of political opportunism in Kenya are. When we go to a funeral, not all of us go to mourn, some go to make speeches and be heard, others go to listen to those speches and others go for the beef curry and rice. Hope you know this. I fear for u being made a pawn on this but do I say?

I have read a lot of stuff about Odhiambo Mbai's death in this blog in the last few days. Kumekucha, Ken and anybody else married tell me: What would u guys do if u found your wife french kissing me with me madly caressing her bare bossom (I have a thing with the buttons that are nippples)? Me I would not even pay touts to shoot u I would pull that damn trigger myself. Let people drag politics there but there was none.

Yes Lucas I also know ken Ouko though not at a personal level. His ways are not anything we should discuss in public, are they?

Proud Kikuyu Woman said...

Phil, I'm NOT withdrawing anything, no apologies, as usual.

My question to Lucas was based on this part of his comment "..Nairobi is a snipers paradise. Lots of high buildings, Massive traffic and a corrupt populace. You can see the kind of thoughts that go through the mind ....." We probably have different notions of truth and justice.

Taabu said...

Two issues appear to generate the greatest heat here at Kumekucha. I won't bother with the obvious. Have you good people discovered that matters emotional make us take leave of everything else? I pray that Iam wrong but fear with the gut feeling that I am spot on. We are so politicized and partisan to an extent of refusing to read political malice in any venture.

And Kenyan never disappoint. We eloquently articulate our points of view albeit with poorly disguised bias. How the TJ crusade turned into a tribal vilification plot I don't know. Do we stop discussing anything because everybody was born to a mother with a tongue? If our sense of pride rests exclussively with a cluster of letters spelling our names and shouting about it, well I better be labelled as prideless.

The latent venom in our posts betrays the mouthed objectivity. We surely reason and act in misterios way. Whoever brough the vocabulary of selective amnesia to our shore was spot on. And the beatiful circular rise continues.

Anonymous said...

How come MB post is atracting more replies than Lucas's .Let's stick to the topic who killed Tom Mboya????

kenyaone said...

PKW: Like i said. I start by being honest no matter how ugly then work on getting it right. Thats sustainable. As for the Kikuyu angle. I have no problem with Kikuyus personally or any other tribe. You will note I talked of the Kikuyu elite who even other Kikuyus have a problem with. Same goes for Luos I believe. There is a Luo elite who are completely out of touch with the average Luo. Im hoping Im not one of them. If I am I can change. I believe not because of my parentage but actually because of who I really am its not possible to pull a tribal tag on me. I like that. Incidentally I will say it here publically with no qualms whatsoever. I would prefer another term for Kibaki than a Raila presidency. And I do not know Raila neither have i ever had a conversation with him, neither do I hanker to nor do I have anything against him. I would like to think that I can be accepted by anyone and everyone with whatever views I have just as i similarly extend the hand of friendship to anyone whether they fit my political/economic perception or not. Thats the freedom to choose. Thats what makes humans unique. We can disagree but remains fiends. So for any Luo/Kikuyu (or otherwise) tags, please count me out. In fact I grew up in Eldoret and share a much closer bond with my kalenjin friends than Luo or Kikuyu. My wife is Kikuyu. From Mukurueini no less. To be honest I lost the thread on how we ended up on truth and reconcilliation./ I suspect I had something to do with it. Sorry if that has upset anyone. But it is my agenda thats for sure. No PKW i would probably not do what I seemed to suggest but you never know. Possibly If i met TJ in the next life he might give me a high five if i did. Nevertheless that was just so that others could understand some of the things i grapple with. Meanwhile I will lurk abit and see how this goes. Thanks all for this space and time. More power to all of you.

Lucas

Marianne said...

Thanks, Lucas, for these words - it must have been hard to say all this and to have to endure some of the comments. Thanks also taabu - I fully agree with you on this last statement.
And that's it for me - I give up at least on this - but not on having the hope that one day we find out the truth - and here I use the word 'we' on purpose.
For all the others: continue fighting, going on the throat of each other - all for the wrong (tribal) reasons. Kenya is one nation and not the motherland of tribes. Why others have overcome this and you don't? Or do you just accept to be 'guided' on this line because your politicians use you and your wrong perceptions for their own gains and purposes?

M.

Marianne Briner said...

A suggestion to all of you but especially for all those who don't know or don't remember who Tom Mboya really was:
go to wwww.tommboya.com and you will find all you need to know or want to know including video clips of his funeral, the subsequent riots etc.
Then click also on the upper line reading 'an evening with Tom Mboya' (24.9.04) and here you will then find amongst the guest speakers Dr. Njoroge Mungai talking on the Tom Mboya Airlifts.
And then you know why I wrote my letter to him ..........
I thought this last explanation was of importance .....

Marianne

chris said...

I have desperately tried to search for comments dealing directly with the subject of this post but have found none. Not one. Some ignorant guy even admitted that he does not know anything about Tom Mboya and is not interested. WOW!!!

Is this what Kenya has been reduced to?

Lucas, I have studied your Dad's life in great detail right down to the skin ointment he had gone to purchase at Chaani's chemist moments before he was gunned down, right to the musical band he joined (obviously for the girls). And I can tell you with all sincerity, he would have been very proud of you and what you have done here. Very proud.

The question that is disturbing me is why is the level of debate on this subject so low (non-exiostant actually)?

a) Is it because representatives of the murderers and those who have gained from it are the majority making comments here and obviously have to protect their interests?

b) Is it because Kenyans including the elite are not interested in discussing real issues?

c) Is it because Kenyans have no interest in this subject of political assassinations?

I wonder...

-Kumekucha-
P.S. I meet common people everywhere in Kenya all the time and many of them with very limited education still have a fairly good knowledge of who Tom Mboya was and his significance to Kenyan history. This is a real mystery.

chris said...

When somebody loses their way, the only way to find the right way is to retrace your steps to where you went off track. Kenya lost her way on July 5th 1969.

Only by going back and resolving the issues associated with that fateful day, can Kenya move forward and also solve other political murders.

If you know anything about Mboya, then you know that he single handedly spear-headed the fight for indipendence. This is no exergeration. Without him independence would still have come but much later. My dad always reminds me of the time he said "Uhuru sasa" and everybody thought that he was crazy to suggest that the mighty British empire backed colonial government would give native indipendence in the next 20 years. But he had a startegy and he used it and helped Kenya gain indipendence within less than a year after he uttered thjose famous words.

When we find out who murdered Mboya and why, then the healing and rehuvenation of Kenya will begin. believe me, there is no other way.

UKWELI SASA!!

-Kuemkucha-

derek said...

This is great! More emails from across world and truly good intention. Thanx to Chris for encouraging such a heated debate.

It got more posts that the eagerly awaited Nation dossier in March, and even more mature.

Taabu said...

The Chinese adage 'a journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step' couldn't be more apt. Even if we cannot nail the murders of jana, at least they have heard just like the rock-hyena dialogue. The Truth and Reconciation commission was the perfect answer. But its absense we cannot just sit on our upper limps nor throw the appendages up in the air. Let us start from somewhere (TJ) instead of cheaply attaching a tribal tag to TJ. Kwani who doesn't have a mother with a tongue?

This post may have registered historic hits but I fear the 40+ posts were all typed flogging the wrong horse-SIDESHOW. And there llies the ugly truth that we hide under objectivity while shalessly spewing subjective vitrol. Freedom of speech, right? Who killed Mboya and why? Name and shame. Nothing to do with your ethnic orientations. We are all biological accidents of our parents' pleasures, period.

Anonymous said...

Hey chris pls dont give Lucas MB's no n e-mail coz he might b used as a sex tool JK style alafu off she goes oh ho ws rapd n such nonsense!!! Let TM spirit in peace!!

John K. said...

PKW, What John K. is saying is that unless the old guard is removed from power, a state of emergency declared, then ordinary Kenyans can have the opportunity to rid us of this rot. We can take a cue from Bangladesh where a care taker government has rounded up all corrupt individuals thrown them in jail and even had some already sentenced to prison terms already, no exceptions being made. The reality however is that those in power, past and present are untouchable as long as their friends and cohorts are running the country. Attempting to go after the untouchable as an ordinary citizen guarantees dire consequences up to and including premature death.

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