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Friday, November 20, 2009

The Paradox of Devolution and Nationalism

Kenyans are poring into the draft constitution starting from the top. They have collectively identified the cancer of unchecked powers exclusively resident at State House which they want tamed. On the same frequency they abhor reserving the weighty task of choosing PM to selfish politicians.

The CoE would kill many birds with the same stone by amending that clause to indicate that the PM will be the leader of the party with majority MPs. That single provision will sound the death knell of briefcase parties while promoting policy-based parties. What is more, voters will vote with be priori knowledge of whom their prospective PM would be. That will minimize political wheeler dealing and arm twisting.

That said the prospect of two centres of power MUST be addressed if the present inertia and tension is to be eradicated. Instead of narrowing power sharing to two offices, the executive authority is better best executed from one office with empowered independent institutions as watchdogs. Independent institutions rather than gullible MPs are a safer bet to objectivity and continuity devoid of electoral tensions.

While Kenyans rightfully remain fixated to the proposed two centres of power, chapter two of the draft constitution is a study in paradox per excellence. First the chapter spells out devolution which captures the hitherto loathed majimbo in all but name.

With devolution come deserved superlatives like sovereignty of the people and supremacy of the constitution itself. The three layers of governance is just too costly for a poor country like Kenya. But again, the CoE must have been alive to our ethnic loyalties and regional disparities.

The draft declares that the governments at the various levels will be distinct and interdependent. Then comes the rider that the same governments must conduct their mutual relations on the basis of consultation and cooperation. That paradox must be clearly spelt out to avoid any regional conflicts that will inevitably impact on the national fabric.

Also chapter two of the draft hits a masterstroke by reducing national holidays to three: Madaraka, Mashujaa and Jamhuri days. Makes sense if only they would do away with the obsession to specific dates and instead opt for days of the week (e.g first Monday of June ....) to avoid disruption of economic activities.

But this structuring and reduction of holidays is a first step to kill deity and destructive sycophancy that saw previous presidents patent Kenya in their own names. Besides disabusing previous imperialists of personalized rule, this is a recognition of all who selfishly contributed in different ways to liberating Kenya.

In a nutshell, while all are tackling the draft head first, the document provides us with the best opportunity to RECLAIM Kenya for ourselves and the future generation. We must not allow the pettiness of the present politicians to take us back to MISRI. The first generation leaders failed big time to steer Kenya to her right heights and we are paying the painful consequences.

Let us seize this unique moment to retrace our steps and redefine the glorious Kenya for posterity. We owe it to ourselves and the future generation.

49 comments:

Anonymous said...

The totally separation of powers between the three arms of government is what is badly needed.

I see no sense in having a President and PM if the aforementioned institutions are galvanized and execute their due diligence.

The President should be a non-MP elected with universal suffrage, that has countrywide appeal. That would eliminate the likes and fiasco of the Kibakis.

The cabinet would also be non-MP, 15-20 as proposed in the draft, that are technocrats or experts in their charges, vetted thoroughly by Parliament.

Kenya is too small a country to have that many layers of government.

In major cities like Nairobi, Mombasa, Kisumu, boroughs would be likely to address the rot that is the city councils.

MP also need to start paying TAXES period. How are they part of a legilative body that is meant to draft and ammend the aforementioned if they do not partake of it?

No free rides to the rebirth of our once glorious nation, COUNTRY first, GOD for us all, aluta continua!

Ken said...

It is a total shame that our MP's who are supposed to be educated thing the word President and Kibaki are synonymous. They also think Prime Minister is another name for Raila Odinga.

There is no point of taking executive power from one individual to another. PERIOD. Infact, we do not need a PM and President. We can do with only one.

The presidents powers are too much and that is not in dispute. But by taking the powers from the president to PM does not solve it. Make parliament independent with its own powers, same for Judiciary and have the AG as an elected official, introduce District attorneys etc.

By the way, has the good committee thought of the financial implications of having all those houses and senates and governors?

Anonymous said...

The part on term of office of the President reads:
"Term of office of State President
167. (1) The State President shall hold offi ce for a term not exceeding fi ve years beginning with the
date of assumption of offi ce.
(2) For the purposes of clause (1), the period that the State President serves as State President
after an election of a new State President and before the swearing in of the new State
President is not part of the term of the outgoing State President.
(3) A person shall not hold offi ce as State President for more than two terms.
(4) For the purposes of clause (3), a person who has continuously served as State President for
at least two and half years shall be deemed to have served a full term."

If the draft constitution is adopted next year, since the older constitution will have been ousted, and constitutionally speaking, Kibaki's power and legitimacy will arise from this constitution, nothing can stop him from him, constitutionally and legally, from declaring that he is serving his first term and run for another one. Remember all other laws, including electrol or any judgement or ruling of the court, obtain their validity and legitimacy from the constitution, and the constitution, including this draft, declares itself the supreme law and thus renders any conflicting law, action, judgment etc null and void. It's provisions are the ultimate point of reference, not previous constitutions and laws.
I think this draft should have one a provision that institutionalizes national elections in December 2012, and that the current holder of the office of State President shall not contest the Presidency at the said time.
Futher, it should provide for a way of change from the current Parliament system to Senate and regional governments. As it stands, when it is adopted, parliament will stand dissolved, since there will only be a senate, structurally different, and even if it continues running, one can rush to the courts to have it declared unconstitutional. I bet there will be many confusions, and given our politicians greed and general activism, malice and bad faith among Kenyan populace, there will in no doubt much problem of implementation. The constitution should have a full section of transition of institutions e.g. within two years after coming into force, to forestall anarchy and misuse by politicians, and general confusion which is detrimental to economic prosperity and national cohesion

Rememember Moi argument in 1992 that he was running a new term although he had already served approximately 14 years as President. Under the new constitutional law, he was fresh, and Matibas application that he be barred was thrown out of the courts. Unless the constitution states that it has a retrospective effect on some office holders, they are deemed to be new creations under that constitution, running afresh.

Anonymous said...

I commented on the draft in the previous post. I have now read the draft a second time. Actually there are no two centres of power. The document says the PM is the head of government, meanining the national governmnet. The powers and functions of the national government are in the 4th schedule. The PM is incharge of everything. It is not the French system but the UK one. If we decide to go this way, all we should do is remove from the draft the stringent election process of president. The proposed president should just be elected by parliament as is the case in India, Germany, Italy, Israel and elsewhere where they have a ceremonial head of state. Taabu read the document again. There are no two centres of power. The president only makes appointments, which have to be approved, recommended or advised by another body or person. The PM and cabinet are completely unchecked.

Anonymous said...

After having one center of power since independence, having two is not bad. Why should we have a tried and tested system that has never worked. I believe so long as the duties of the two offices are clearly defined it will be manageble.
What we need more is to totaly overhaule the implementation arm of the governent such as judiciary , police and ag. Currently it is very easy for the police and council askaris to arrest anybody without any evidence. The legal system in Kenya is only designed to benefit the rich.
The federal system to me is the best part of this draft and I hope it goes through. There are enough safeguards in this draft to curb excesses by the exercutive, with the sanate checking the parliament.
The changes I would like to see is to bar the Mps and sanators from Being appointed ministers. And all important appointments to be vetted by both houses of representatives.
Curiuos

Anonymous said...

people don't eat democracy. they will never do so. when will kenyans engage in economics withe same passion they have for politics?

why not replace the westminister system with a bicameral model or the knesset model for a change?

52238318099
syk jeneza

Mwarang'ethe said...

Anonymous said...
people don't eat democracy. they will never do so. when will kenyans engage in economics withe same passion they have for politics?

Our views:

Most people are only aware of political democracy because that what the elite want them to be aware of. However, apart from political democracy, there is economic democracy.

Having political democracy (the ability to put a paper in a ballot box) and shout in the streets when no one listens to you as a citizen, is pretty useless without economic democracy.

Thats why the Africans can and sing and dance as they put the ballot paper in the ballot box in South Africa, but, they are still poor and they shall sink into more poverty.

It is for the same reasons millions of poor people in the USA can vote, but, cannot afford health insurance. So, it shall be in Kenya.

For instance, we shall vote in 2012perhaps with a new constitution. But, has anyone wondered, since we will be having a debt of over 1 trillion KES by then, how much interest we shall be paying per day?

Or, to put it in simple language, how much sweat and blood must we sacrifice to pay these debts instead of investing in education, health etc? Well, many think economic democracy can wait.

In the fullness of time, the truth will be out that, we have only put old wine in the new skin.

Anonymous said...

The only suggestion that makes sense here is 'the president should declare the leader of the party with majority MPs as prime minister' that is excellent.

Phil said...

Taabu, this is the first sober analysis of the harmonized constitution I am reading at Kumekucha since the debate started.

Unlike Lucas Mboya and other guests writers, I will not at any one moment hesitate to rid this country of the pre-NARA mongrel constitution which has brought untold suffering to the Republic of Kenya. My choice is clear. The country wants REFORMS.

Having said that, Taabu, my understanding is that the PM is not to be (s)elected by MPs. The PM lands his posting by virtue of emerging the elected leader of the party with the largest number of MPs after a general election. The highest number of MPs may or may not mean the highest number of votes, but it is CERTAINLY the majority in parliament. This means the boundaries commission has got a hell of a job cut out for them.

Phil said...

One thing is clear. The harmonized draft is strengthening the institution of political parties. In other words, multi-party democracy which Kenya has been practicing by name only, will from now henceforth hold its true meaning. For once in our history, the political parties’ National Delegates Congress is recognized as an important player in democracy. Political parties are being put on a highway to controlling governance issues in the country.

This is the time to separate true patriots from back-seat drivers like Chris, Lucas and people like Jeff. We have had so much criticism in past about how this country needs new thinking and modern leadership. We have heard how the old school needs to give way to the younger generation. This is the time for Chris and his likeminded citizens to form their own political parties and propagate their policies to the Kenyan public. This is the time for the likes of Sam Okello to stop blogging, roll up their sleeves and come out openly to declare where they stand. Blogging, as I keep saying, is not balloting. Kumekucha is not a ballot box, only those who form strong ideological political parties stand a chance. Sam Okello and Chris Kumekucha let’s hear what you have to say about this!

What's more, and whereas I agree with Lucas that Kenyans must change their attitudes towards everything, we must also lay the foundations for strong, transparent and accountable institutions. That foundation happens to be in the harmonized draft. Only strong institutions will respect each other and earn the respect of Kenyans. Thereafter, we can start tackling the problem that is the Kenyan attitude.

It is pure dishonesty, Taabu, to purport that this constitution will be too costly for Kenya's economy. It is also a white lie to suggest that there are two centres of power. You seem (and it appears Lucas and Chris as well) to be suffering from the heavy hangover of the imperial presidency constitution that Tom Mboya created to guard Kenyatta's dictatorship. Please tell us, since when did accountability and transparency become expensive? Surely, what is more costly: A pre-NARA constitution laden with mega scams after mega scams after mega scams OR a devolved transparent structure with sufficient checks and balances at all levels where the grassroot have a say on how to utilize their own resources? One only needs to recall what the Kibaki/Kivuitu conspiracy did this country, and the nightmare comes back all over again.

Additionally, the Prime Minister's office is one office very few of the current political crop will be able to survive. The PM will be forced to appoint a cabinet partly from outside parliament. Parliament, will itself be breathing down the PM's neck as will his own political party that he heads. On the other hand, what is being bandied as ceremonial presidency, actually retains virtually most of its previous executive powers except government/cabinet affairs. Which sounds good enough, I mean we've been through 40 years of hell and the powerful presidency has benefited a handful of individuals but betrayed the aspirations of millions.In so doing, the country has gone backwards rather than forwards.

Parliament has been given the teeth it has always yearned for. It can send the PM home at any time, and with a simple majority. We should not think that the MPs of the 11th parliament will be the same as those of the previous parliament. Parties have been strengthened and therefore one hopes the MPs they bring forward will have passed the test and possess the right credentials.

The people have been given the power to recall MPs, change their government through political parties as well as have a direct path of amending the constitution. I mean, what more can we ask for?

By all means, let the harmonized draft be FINE TUNED, but I think the CoE has done a marvelous job.

As the PM said, Kenyans must bite the bullet. It is now or never.

Anonymous said...

Our views:

Most people are only aware of political democracy because that what the elite want them to be aware of. However, apart from............blah blah blah

Does this Mwarang'ethe character suffer from multiple personality dirsorder. What do you mean by 'our views'??? The draft fails us by not making a mental examination compulsory! Clearly, some people need this urgently...

Mwarang'ethe said...

Does this Mwarang'ethe character suffer from multiple personality dirsorder. What do you mean by 'our views'??? The draft fails us by not making a mental examination compulsory! Clearly, some people need this urgently...

11/19/09 11:14 PM

Our response:

Could you be a beneficiary of the inequity we are denouncing?

We have talked about monstrous fictious debts that are crippling humanity and causing so much anguish, and you dare not say a word about it.

It was people like you Peter Tosh addressed when he sang:

"every time I see Babylon my blood runs cold, and, every time I see the wicked men, my belly moves."

Relax, Mr. Slave Rider with your whip, time permitting, we shall put forward our argument for your consideration if you are capable of doing that.

Anonymous said...

Look here the most prosperous republic in the world has a capitalistic economy n a communist govt the guys dnt know wat voting is but know how to do business. democracy is a failed type of govt. Lets try dictatorship. Museveni, kagame ,Hu jintao way!

Anonymous said...

Phil, it is good to hear from you. You have confirmed rao's position on the katiba. Since rao and you are for it, it cant be good for kenyans. I will not support it unless they remove the pm's post. The american system would be best for us.

Mwarengethe, you dont live in this world do you.? Do you know any country where your ideas have been implemented?

Anonymous said...

Phil thinks the PM post is being tailored for his god Raila, the odmoron always seems to reason like someone with his head stuck deep up Raila's butt.
Which Kenyan in his right mind thinks MP's are patriotic and reasonable??? and why didn't the new constitution remove the powers of MP's renumeration from parliament??
something is not right and only dummy's like phil thinks the sky is clear!!!

Anonymous said...

How can a candidate campaign vigorously across the country for Presidency and have no mandate to select the team (ie) the cabinet to implement the new policy? Whoever is voted by the 40 million Kenyans, whether the PM or the President, should solely chose the cabinet, as he is accountable to Kenyans. It is like having Obama in USA chose the leader of the Democratic Party to form the cabinet, and therefore implement his election pledges. Americans would never allow such stagnation and blameshifting. No wonder they are still the richest and most successful nation on earth, and where they fail with a certain Presidency (war, recession), they bring reforms in the next (from Bush to Obama). I do not want us to be copy cats of USA, and not everything about them is good, but one thing is clear, Americans have, I think, the best constitution on earth. They have cut down the poers of an imperial presidency through a strong congress (parliament) and judiciary with utmost independence. The current draft is merely a platform for blameshifting, and from that will be stagnation, corruption, tension, or even civil war (Belgium left Congo such a Constitution in early 1960 and there was within 60 months due to struggle for dominance between PM and President, and till today, Congo is still fighting.
Before anything else, I want to know that the person I chose directly as President or PM will perform execute his promises, failure to which I will hold him accountable, but not 5 years of struggle for dominance, tension and blameshifting. The current draft does not provide that. Come referendum, I am voting a big No.

Mwarang'ethe said...

Mwarengethe, you dont live in this world do you.? Do you know any country where your ideas have been implemented?

11/20/09 12:23 AM

Response:

As we noted before, if Kenyans were to accept these ideas, they would be teaching all other nations how to constitute a servant and not a master state, as we have now.

In any case, who said Kenya must always follow others? Can't Kenyans lead others?

Also, how come when Kenyans are told to implement SAPS by the magicians at the IMF and WB, they don't ask, where have these SAPS worked? Talk of inferiority complex.

Anonymous said...

Mwarangethe, i think the few readers who have said you have good ideas have made you think you are very smart.

unfortunately, yours is a common case of useless rambling that will take no one anywhere. you are the same fellow who not long ago campaigned for raila saying he is the best option, and today you want us to embrace never tried before ideas.
why we ask dont we also elect a new face not 64 tired corrupt moron who inherited leadership from his dead father.

Kimi Raikkonen said...

This draft will NOT pass as it gives too much power to an unelected PM likely to be imposed by the thugs we call MPs. Secondly, the devolution model is too expensive. Who tells people like Phil that transparency will be automatic because it is provided for in a new constitution? who will oversee this transparency? Parliament? We all know the Kenya DNA type for an MP and it is NOT going to change just because there are new MPs elected under a new dispensation. Who are the MPs accountable to anyway? The recall clause is just a recipe for chaos. Those supporting this draft uncritically as if Santa clause has just landed are fools. Too many things have been entrusted to be dependent on good faith, and we all know where good faith has gotten us ever since we 'selected' delegates to the Bomas conference.

Anonymous said...

anon 12:47,

You raise a good point. On one hand you want people to embrace new ideas while on the other hand you insist of retaining the old memory bank politicians with systems wired to tribal sycophancy. a man who appoints Kajwang, Ntimama, Dalmas Otieno, sally kosgey, william Ruto, Charity Ngilu and other corrupt leaders to important public offices just to maintain votes and also goes ahead to appoint his family members to key public offices belongs in jail.
Funny that Mwarangethe with his 'wise ideas' is ready to overlook this as he preaches new ideas. what a waste of brains!!!

Anonymous said...

anon 12:47,

You raise a good concerning Raila. On one hand you want people to embrace new ideas while on the other hand you insist of retaining the old memory bank politicians with systems wired to tribal sycophancy. a man who appoints Kajwang, Ntimama, Dalmas Otieno, sally kosgey, william Ruto, Charity Ngilu and other corrupt leaders to important public offices just to maintain votes and also goes ahead to appoint his family members to key public offices belongs in jail.
Funny that Mwarangethe with his 'wise ideas' is ready to overlook this as he preaches new ideas. what a waste of brains!!!

Mwarang'ethe said...

Anonymous said...
Mwarangethe, i think the few readers who have said you have good ideas have made you think you are very smart.

unfortunately, yours is a common case of useless rambling that will take no one anywhere.

Our response:

What you should do is, take for instance the idea of linking the ability to print money to land tax and show us why it is not practical. We argue that, when you do this, among other adv:

(a) Eliminate domstic debt and interest thereof. By so doing, you stop taxing the poor to enrich the few. This, we argue, is the best way of reducing the wealth gap.

Instead of engaging, you retort to insults. For instance, how will the new constitution narrow the wealth gap? You have not told us, and no one is talking about it.

Be a real man/woman and engage in real issues and stop these insults for anyone can do that. Will you be a man/woman?

Mwarang'ethe said...

Funny that Mwarangethe with his 'wise ideas' is ready to overlook this as he preaches new ideas. what a waste of brains!!!

Response:

You do NOT GET IT.

Our argument is summarised in very few words. In the new Constitution:

We shall have old wine in new wine skin. How does that amount to supporting anyone?

Are you brain dead or what?

Sam Okello said...

Phil,

Why are you bitter about our (Me and Chris) assertion that Raila is not best placed to move Kenya forward?
Remember the biblical new wine in an old wine skin? Lets have the young generation leading the new constitutional dispensation. Raila was relevant before. It is hard for me to say this but i will say it, Raila is no longer relevant as we approach the promised land.

Phil said...

Blogger Sam Okello said...

Phil,

Why are you bitter about our (Me and Chris) assertion that Raila is not best placed to move Kenya forward?


Sam,

You and Chris are entitled to your opinions. However, you have NO right to impose your ideas on us.

I have not mentioned Raila in my initial comments and I wonder why you choose to bring him in this debate. What is this Railaphobia all about? Like I always say, RAO is a Kenyan and you cannot deny him his democratic right to seek any political office of the land. It is not upon you or me to rate his qualifications. That is the work of voters.

For now, let us engage about the pros and cons of the harmonised draft. You and Chris have on various occassions in past spoken about a new political dispensation. Do you want us to remain with the pre-NARA mongrel constitution? If not, then what?

Remember, Chris at one time even threatened to nominate a presidential candidate. Nearly six years ON, it turned out it was just HOT AIR.

Now we are at point where I am calling you out to stand up and declare on which side you fall. If you keep seeing the 'oldness' and 'inefficiencies' of others and fail to come out and lead Kenyans to the promised land, you remain mere bloggers. In other words, back seat drivers.

If you believe you are best placed, please throw your hat into the ring. That is your democratic right.

Anonymous said...

Phil:

You should be ashamed of yourself saying that someone is not patriotic if he/she doesn't agree with you or Raila. That is the kind of ODMite mentality that is not helpful as we match to the Promised Land.

Anonymous said...

Dear Phil,
I wish you can for a minute listen to what Brother Okello has to say about Raila. Raila is not fit to lead us in the new constitutional dispensation. Last year, when he had a chance to constitute his side of coalition cabinet he filled it with old Moi cronies, thugs and murderers such as Kosgey, Dalmas Otieno, Ruto, Ntimama, etc. just to retain tribal votes. He also put his own brother at the treasury to fleece public money. Raila's cabinet list was a copy stolen from Moi's inner pockets. He failed the most important executive test - appointing clean and able ministers. Just look at Kajuang' and his shinenigans, or Ngilu of the stolen AIDS money.

As we cross River Jordan, Raila ought to be among the led, not among leaders. Period.

Phil said...

Let me lay it bare:

There is a real chance that ODM will scoop both the presidency and the PM posts.

That spells an end to the reign of impunity, status quoist and non-reformers of Kenya.

The best the PNU coalition will be able to get if the draft is enacted will be the Leader of Official Opposition. You can throw a coin to decide who it will be between Kalonzo, Uhuru and Saitoti.

The PNU is waking up to the nightmare that after Kibaki's stolen term ends, there is really no chance of anyone among them emerging as a favourite. This is the reason central Kenya MPs are running around like headless chicken not knowing whether to support or not support the harmonized draft. One-man-one-vote mantra does not give Central Province absolute advantage. Infact it turns out, there are provinces which have much more registered voters than Central, including (can you believe this?) Nyanza!

The fact that RAO has not commented on this adds to the confusion. The fact that RAO has not indicated his preference (for presidency or premiership) is sending chills down the spines of PANUaist.

Reverting to the old constitution is NOT good either. No one party or coalition can at this point claim to be able to stand toe to toe with ODM in a free and fair election.

In other words, only an assassination - god forbid - can stop us getting to the promised land.

Politics is not for the faint hearted. Neither is it for anonymouses throwing barbs and insults behind computer screens.

The reality is AGENDA4 is giving a group of people sleepless nights.

Anonymous said...

Phil, I admire your loyalty to rao but when you wake up you will see the 4 million votes he got are now down to below a million. Ruto has stated he will run for president. In such a scenario uhuru will definitely win. And am talking about the current constitution. It is very likely that every big tribe in kenya will present a presidential candidate in 2012. I dont see my tribesman kalonzo getting uhuru's and ruto's support. Raila is definitely out without kaleo support. I have said this before and will repeat it: kk is designed to be implemented after the elections. You have heard kaleos saying it will not matter if ruto loses since kalonzo lost in the last election and he is now vp. That is what they want. So uhuru is prezo and ruto is vp, and if they feel generous they will give kalonzo non executive pm.

Anonymous said...

PHIL,

Please, don't come here to divide the constitutional discussion into Central Kenya versus Nyanza, or to engage in human worship. We are talking about the constitution of the entire country which must guide for us eons to come. For once, rise above the ODM/PNU or Kikuyu/Luo pettiness. Who becomes the next President or PM, or which party gets to gorvern is not our concern right now, our concern is whether the ordinary citizen gets to say who governs the country and how the resources are going to be shared equitably. So, you and your headless chicken metaphors should take a break and allow those who are willing and able to ponder and discuss the future of the entire nation to do so in peace.

Anonymous said...

Poor phil. If only fantasy could come real. Raila is not even winning the presidency let alone being PM.

He is a lame duck with the Kaleos and Coastal people gone. Where do you think the kikuyu vote and the massive Kamba vote in eastern and coast will go? Uhuru? he will be in the hague with our dear friend ruto. They are going to Kalonzo. He will be the next PORK.

And as you stack power to a non elected PM, keep in mind that one day very very soon a kikuyu will end up there and with their ability to cut deals and corrupt, you will be ruled by GEMA till the end of the world. Look at city council and the endless kikuyus that run it and think.

You stupid, greedy, short sighted fools. No wonder kikuyus play around with you like kids.

Anonymous said...

anon
11/20/09 4:36 AM

Why bring insults on here? We are all kenyans, stop rubbing the kikuyu murderers in our faces. or else we will land lock you in central province Lesotho style, let mungiki murderers rule you and make you wear long skirts and circumcise your girls..

Stop the abuses here and lets debate on our constitution with rational minds.. don't forget we are all kenyans and next time you won't have a chance like you brag to play around with the rest of kenyans- watch and learn...

Anonymous said...

Why is it that "collectively" the Central MPs are the first to oppose the draft constitution? Then they will run back to their tribal enclaves cheating their masses that "they" are against us?

JEFF said...

Phil said...

"This is the time to separate true patriots from back-seat drivers like Chris, Lucas and people like Jeff".

Phil, we need to differentiate patriotism with misguided human worship. The 411 is that ODM as you knew it no longer exists. The same applies to PNU. You seem stuck in an ODM time warp. You seem to be the only one in this corner. Be truly patriotic, man, let's think about our grandchildren, not some passing clouds, as we debate the merits and demerits of the draft constitution.

Taabu said...

Folks, let us stick to the post and pore on the draft. All other riff raffs can wait till the coast is clear with a template for a constitution.

For close to 20 years we have been through this labour pain. We must collectively and objectively SEIZE this moment to DELIVER. Failure to which we will engage another expensive and painful gear into reverse.

As they say only fools do the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Our politicians (NO LEADERS) know us just too well. We must disabuse them of their petinness and shame them.

Let us help fine-tune the draft and have the REAL fresh start. We owe it to ourselves and Kenya.

Mwarang'ethe said...

As we have noted before, arising from the failure to institute measures that would unleash the power of free markets and thereby let people feed, clothe and educate themselves out of their hard work, talent and expertise, we are busy constructing socialist state.

Sample this: Law proposes right to a full stomach @ http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/691956/-/up7r7a/-/index.html

We do not oppose socio -economic rights, but, we do not see how this can be achieved under the arrangements this draft constitution proposes. For any one who has been observant, the wellfare state is a dismal failure and it will not work in Kenya.

Kenyans will be dissapointed big time.

Good luck Kenyans who expect full stomach.

Anonymous said...

And now, Mwarangethe's hammer:

"We have talked about monstrous fictious debts that are crippling humanity and causing so much anguish, and you dare not say a word about it."

"What you should do is, take for instance the idea of linking the ability to print money to land tax and show us why it is not practical."

This from our self-professed social democrat:
"For any one who has been observant, the wellfare state is a dismal failure and it will not work in Kenya."

ROTFLMAO.

Anonymous said...

And who is Taabu the son of?

Flashback to this:
The writer of this post, Lucas Mboya is the son of the late Tom Mboya.

Mwarang'ethe said...

This from our self-professed social democrat:
"For any one who has been observant, the wellfare state is a dismal failure and it will not work in Kenya."

ROTFLMAO.

11/20/09 9:28 PM

Our response:

Where the hell did u get the idea that Mwarang'ethe is social democrat?

Why don't you have courage and face the issues we have raised?

Anonymous said...

Why is Raila behaving so badly toward the Kalenjins. Old men, women and children crying on the roadsides. What have they done to be turned into road kills by Raila. May heavens have mercy upon them. If Raila can treat them like this when he is just a PM, imagine what he would do if he happens to be President.

Anonymous said...

The Kaleos are paying heavily for the sins of Moi detaining Raila. This man, Raila, is very vengeaful. The day he will get hold of the Kikuyus, they will cry tears of blood. Did he not promise the Merus tears if came to power in 2007?

Anonymous said...

regional governments!- this is where all the trouble lies! the PM and President issue is just a smoke screen! nobody seems have spent adequate time to study the proposed devolution. In my view this is where we need to focus our effort to ensure we have strong and competitive devolved regions

Anonymous said...

"Why don't you have courage and face the issues we have raised?"

What issues have you raised? Nothing! If you come down to reality we might have something to discuss.

Mwarang'ethe said...

What issues have you raised? Nothing! If you come down to reality we might have something to discuss.

11/21/09 2:02 PM

Our response:

Firstly, this is what happened in the battle of the horse versus the locomotive/train.

When George Stephenson went to the House of Lords, i.e. House of Landlords to get a permit, he found two things:

(a) The Lords had realised that railroad would destroy their revenues from canal companies. After deliberating for more than 2 months, the House of Lords refused the railroad charter because "Such a venture roaring and clattering across the fields would ruin the countryside for fox hunting.

The argument was so powerful that even Stephenson had no idea how to answer back. For three days, this parliament heckled him asking him these questions:

- Were not the redhot chimney ends likely to frighten the people?
- What would happen if a cow should stray upon the track? Would that not be an awkward circumstance? Awkward indeed, he answered the Lords.

Then, one of the Lords said, you know no reputable engineer is willing to appear b4 the parliament to advocate the use of steam locomotive?. He answered, "I am."

When they asked him the speed, he lied it would be 12 milles although he knew it would cruise beyond this speed. To the Lords, 8 miles was the uppermost they could imagine and they vetoed the railway bill so as to keep England safe for travellers and serene for foxes.

The question is, are a Lord in this case?

Haya.

(a) How do you suggest we stabilise our currency?

(b) How do you propose we deal with land question?

(c) What do you propose we do with public debt which will reach a trillion kes by 2012?

(d) How do you propose we deal with inequality?

(e) What reforms do you suggest for the banking sector?

(f) What kind of taxation regime do you propose?

We can start with these issues.

Anonymous said...

Mwarange'the
Brilliant thinking. If the majority of Kenyans were like you, I guess Kenya would develop faster than the transformation of Japan from boat fishermen and growers of rice to an industrial power that challenge the economic and military might of USA as of 1941. They remain the second largest economy, but I understand China will overtake them mid-next year

Mwarang'ethe said...

Anonymous said @
11/22/09 1:43 AM

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

We are still waiting for this guy who knows the reality more than we do.

Meanwhile, if you look at s.270 of the draft, just like the old CBK Act, it requires the CBK to maintain a stable value of the currency of the Republic. It will not happen. In fact, with the devolution we have, Kenyans will be taxed even more.

Kenyans, so obsessed with politics, cannot see this chicanery being perpetuated on them in the 21st Century.

In 1776, Thomas Jefferson knew the need and necessity of defining the exact value of their money. Well, we know even Americans have lost this knowledge.

When we talk of stable bodily temperature, we know what we mean cos we know the normal/stable bodily temperature.

Now, here we are told that the CBK will maintain stable currency when the "normal state" of this currency is unknown.

This, is where the greatest mischief lies. Unfortunately, as Peter Tosh lamented, trying to teach people who do not understand is so frustrating for they are like the House of Lords which could not imagine a train moving at 12 miles per hr.

Anonymous said...

read George Friedman 'America the next 100 years' - this book says America's power is just starting
yeah!!

Anonymous said...

how about the proposed kenyan currency have the faces of Dedan Kimathi, General China and others..??
one set of bills can have Robert Ouko, Tom Mboya, JM Kariuki, Pio Pinto???

Mwarang'ethe said...

Anonymous said...
read George Friedman 'America the next 100 years' - this book says America's power is just starting
yeah!!

11/22/09 9:31 AM

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

We do not know where this guy lives. But, we do know that before the collapse of Roman Empire, there was a lot of bread and entertainment.

By the time the masses woke up from the delusions and fantasy created by the "priests" of their time, they were slaves for 1800 guys were left owning the known world. The present civilisation is not very far from this experience.

Since Obama and his G 20 "priests" have refused to do what the doctor ordered, in the fullness of time, we are about to find out the truth.

If the book of ignorance is not your book of reference, u may read the story @
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/6599281/Societe-Generale-tells-clients-how-to-prepare-for-global-collapse.html

You will find words like these:

Société Générale has advised clients to be ready for a possible "global economic collapse" over the next two years, mapping a strategy of defensive investments to avoid wealth destruction.

In a report entitled "Worst-case debt scenario", the bank's asset team said state rescue packages over the last year have merely transferred private liabilities onto sagging sovereign shoulders, creating a fresh set of problems.

Overall debt is still far too high in almost all rich economies as a share of GDP (350pc in the US), whether public or private. It must be reduced by the hard slog of "deleveraging", for years.

NB: How a nation that is bankrupt can be said to be headed for good times is beyond reason. Perhaps, he knows something we do know, and that would be very nice news indeed.

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