tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post312152934634057580..comments2024-03-28T17:52:49.942-07:00Comments on You Missed This: Why This Drive To Surrender Our Sovereignty?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-52971447962500262302008-11-17T01:09:00.000-08:002008-11-17T01:09:00.000-08:00Kwenda uko. Aren't you the same idiots that said t...Kwenda uko. Aren't you the same idiots that said the local courts were too corrupt to handle any electoral challenge mounted by ODM? <BR/>Now you start banging on about sovereignty and surrender. Why don't you just fuck off you duplicitous CUNT. <BR/>Ruto et al are heading to the Hague, it takes years before commencing proceedings there and iseriously hope that a lot of political careers are destroyed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-20339648359440499112008-11-16T03:09:00.000-08:002008-11-16T03:09:00.000-08:00Kenyans are corrupt and can not be entrusted with ...Kenyans are corrupt and can not be entrusted with such a duty. The courts are dependent on the executive. The executive was involved in violence, with the president being the first suspect.<BR/><BR/>What outcome would you expect, if the Kenyan courts would be in charge? The tax payer would be financing a show in which the president would wash himself clean.<BR/><BR/>Forget the wrong African pride, forget the wrong patriotism. All we want is a clean country without rats and coackroaches.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-64250825832804649502008-11-15T01:13:00.000-08:002008-11-15T01:13:00.000-08:00If Kenya was sovereignty and all its wanaicnhi wer...If Kenya was sovereignty and all its wanaicnhi were equal in the eyes of the law, we would not be taking of Hague. Kenyans want haki yao, and it seems Hague is the last hope for any sort of justisce. This time waki played his card well.<BR/>Kenya is our home land, went home house is burning, it wise get out and extinguish the fire from outsideAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-12163683900845132782008-11-15T01:07:00.000-08:002008-11-15T01:07:00.000-08:00The issue of trial by the ICC is not a coup on our...The issue of trial by the ICC is not a coup on our sovereignty, or distrust of our courts. Charges of genocide and crimes against humanity are best handled by international tribunals that do not favour either side. The ICC has a complementary jurisdction to our Courts, and Kenya ratified the Rome statute establishing ICC out of own violation. We submitted to the Courts jusisdiction, unlike the United States that refused to ratify. <BR/><BR/>About the envelope, it will be a great surprise if the names are made public. The persons you console yourself to be outside the envelope may be right inside there for I even do not trust the author when he says that so and so is not there. A big surprise is in store. <BR/><BR/>However, there are technical shortcomings with Kofi Annan forwarding the envelope. If not handed over by the Kenyan Government, the application can only survive a technical blow if the Security Council passes a resolution enabling the ICC to be seized of the matter. The ICC statute does not recognise Annan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-35982307732582883252008-11-15T00:31:00.000-08:002008-11-15T00:31:00.000-08:00The issue of trial by the ICC is not a coup on our...The issue of trial by the ICC is not a coup on our sovereignty, or distrust of our courts. Charges of genocide and crimes against humanity are best handled by international tribunals that do not favour either side. The ICC has a complementary jurisdction to our Courts, and Kenya ratified the Rome statute establishing ICC out of own violation. We submitted to the Courts jusisdiction, unlike the United States that refused to ratify. <BR/><BR/>About the envelope, it will be a great surprise if the names are made public. The persons you console yourself to be outside the envelope may be right inside there for I even do not trust the author when he says that so and so is not there. A big surprise is in store. <BR/><BR/>However, there are technical shortcomings with Kofi Annan forwarding the envelope. If not handed over by the Kenyan Government, the application can only survive a technical blow if the Security Council passes a resolution enabling the ICC to be seized of the matter. The ICC statute does not recognise Annan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-68948882953943430202008-11-14T22:35:00.000-08:002008-11-14T22:35:00.000-08:00ICC is a court for banana republics and Kenya am s...ICC is a court for banana republics and Kenya am sorry to say is one of them!<BR/>You peiople talk about Sovereignty?People with no identity..everything from their names to their language..Crucify the list>.all of them in HAGUE!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-90207855822025910152008-11-14T21:01:00.000-08:002008-11-14T21:01:00.000-08:00Wonder how the Hague will handle a chap with alzhe...Wonder how the Hague will handle a chap with alzheimer's?;) Ever stopped to think about that Kumekucha zealots? Care to remember or should I jog your foggy memories?<BR/><BR/>In short, think beyond this impunity (alias revenge) maneno and realize that there's a LOT more at stake in our political economy in the short and medium term that will NOT be cured by focusing on just ONE thing of a rather longer term nature that promises its own twists and turns.<BR/><BR/>Just this past week, the good pony-tailed ambassador said something on national television that is of tremendous value--there's some low-hanging fruit that can be harvested about now. <BR/><BR/>Go figure, O ye men/women of good will whose love for country is clearly unsurpassed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-18911579193564379882008-11-14T19:54:00.000-08:002008-11-14T19:54:00.000-08:00ANON4:15 PM...TELL THE OTHAYA FOLKS NOT TO BOTHER ...ANON4:15 PM...<BR/>TELL THE OTHAYA FOLKS NOT TO BOTHER ARRANGING ANY FUNERAL FOR KIBAKI WHEN HE GETS TO HAGUE... HE WILL NEVER COME BACK... UZEEE TOPU....<BR/>THE SENILE FOOL DESERVES ALL THE SHIATE COMING AT HIM...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-34971910570542947312008-11-14T19:51:00.000-08:002008-11-14T19:51:00.000-08:00anon4:15 PMHa!!ha!!ha!! he!!he!!he!! you are so hi...anon4:15 PM<BR/>Ha!!ha!!ha!! he!!he!!he!! you are so hilarious.... I guess confusing ODM with Kibaki the senile murderer makes your day... he!he!he!<BR/><BR/>Now let me say it to you loud and clear incase your ears have gone to sleep...<BR/><BR/>who ordered the police and the army to shoot and kill innocent kenyans all across the country?? in order to rig elections and stay in power??<BR/>KIBAKI THE SENILE MURDEROUS FOOL!!<BR/>who had meetings with the mungiki murderous gang before! during! and after the 27th December 2007 elections and we now have facts of the mungiki gang confirming this on tape!!<BR/>Kibaki the senile thug..<BR/><BR/>KIBAKI IS HEADING TO THE HAGUE!! PERIOD... MUPENDE MUSIPENDE!!HE WILL BE FROG MARCHED TO HAGUE WITH ALL THE OTHER GOONS WHO SLAUGHTERED INNOCENT KENYANS....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-51460085540416699832008-11-14T16:15:00.000-08:002008-11-14T16:15:00.000-08:00tehhhhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehheeeee...tehhhhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee hahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ODM kwisha. Nndoa ikivunjika ya raila na ruto......ihiiiiiiii. Country road take me home to the hague ...to the north sea ..i am a murderer got to pay for ma sins......HAGUE wwapende wasipende.....eeh jikojoleeee..hague .....ni lazimaaaaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-12898765142126291382008-11-14T13:59:00.000-08:002008-11-14T13:59:00.000-08:00Sam, We've heard this rhetoric before. Now is the ...Sam, <BR/><BR/>We've heard this rhetoric before. Now is the time to tell us what exactly you want kenyans to do and how they should go about it. <BR/><BR/>Some Homework:<BR/><BR/>Please read the kenyan constitution and tell us what it says when it comes to abuse of office, violence or incitement and breach of peace.<BR/><BR/>You basically have 2 choices. Either become a preacher or stand by the constitution. It is unfortunate that most kenyans are not educated about what the constitution says.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-77859342066858923352008-11-14T12:55:00.000-08:002008-11-14T12:55:00.000-08:00Sam OkelloHow ironic that you are spewing this non...Sam Okello<BR/>How ironic that you are spewing this nonsense from a whiteman's land, if you are so proud of Kenyan sovereinity then why did you move to the land of "milk" and honey?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-70854866714100997862008-11-14T11:54:00.000-08:002008-11-14T11:54:00.000-08:00Sam, you forget to mention that the Kenyan judicia...Sam, you forget to mention that the Kenyan judiciary is thoroughly blessed with incompetence, our ‘Carlos-the-jackal presidency’ is gifted in James-Bond-like type of thievery and the Kenyan legislature graduated with high triple honors from the University of Treachery. <BR/><BR/>If being a proud Kenyan means supporting and sustaining the above, then I agree with you. You see, we all support and sustain these institutions. If we didn’t, they would not be in existence today. The way I see it, we deserve every little bit of disservice delivered upon us by our very own elected leaders. <BR/><BR/>That said, I do support going to The Hague. It’s about time we display our backwardness for the entire world to see.kalamarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06170054004030521381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-90497782207359464992008-11-14T11:53:00.000-08:002008-11-14T11:53:00.000-08:00Sam, I didn't see with you eye to eye on yo...Sam,<BR/> I didn't see with you eye to eye on your last topic. That we should throw the whole Waki thing out. Now you have chosen to side step a little bit and try to accommodate those of our thinking. But you still don't get it, man.<BR/><BR/>This thing has never been about the West, it has everything to do with us. Do we want impunity out or NOT? Why should people sponsor atrocities and run back to their tribes for protection.<BR/><BR/>We normally say shame the devil and we surely need to. Obama has done it against all roadblocks and YES WE CAN do it too.Papihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08210565393334887075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-71555365940568405872008-11-14T10:17:00.000-08:002008-11-14T10:17:00.000-08:00I want to remind you that this is basically about ...I want to remind you that this is basically about the right to live. If people are being murdered in large numbers like they did and the government, the people are no able to protect them, then they deserve the right of justice from wherever source. The people who did and organized these killings did so with the knowledge that they would somehow be protected by those two big pin-heads now running the country. How do you guarantee justice under the current political situation?<BR/><BR/>It’s like when you have serious problem in you house that cannot be resolved. You go to your neighbor or to the chief for an outsider help. Everybody including you the editor and me is part of the problem and we cannot solve it within ourselves. This is about life not economics. What good is sovereignty if your own life is not protected?Jabatsuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18319350909516020437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-86400479232379271722008-11-14T10:13:00.000-08:002008-11-14T10:13:00.000-08:00yoUr eXcellencyNice detailed explanation.yo<B>Ur</B> e<B>X</B>ce<B>l</B>le<B>nc</B>y<BR/><BR/>Nice detailed explanation.Sayrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04042988569205356143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-11558657952629485072008-11-14T10:03:00.000-08:002008-11-14T10:03:00.000-08:00Sam,When you are measuring your progress don't com...Sam,<BR/><BR/>When you are measuring your progress don't compare yourself with the fool ... all you end up doing is fooling yourself.<BR/><BR/>Been one of the largest economies in Africa keeping in mind that less than 10 countries is what u can boast about not 52 countries means nothing. Been a relatively peaceful country for 4yrs right before the general elections ... then right after every general elections we all want to kill each other is nothing to boast about.<BR/><BR/>If you really wanna measure Kenya's progress my best bet would be South Korea who we were at the same level economically in 1972. Now Sam, in comparison to S-Korea where would you place Kenya?<BR/>Such are the kind of comparisons you shld be thinking of ... Sam tafadhali think in that direction.Sayrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04042988569205356143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-37984060725088522522008-11-14T09:57:00.000-08:002008-11-14T09:57:00.000-08:00if we can trust the kenyan judiciary then lets try...if we can trust the kenyan judiciary then lets try the murders in kenyan courts, if there is a remote possibility that they can work the system then let the hague do what it does best. justice is all am asking for. justice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-86874268440435612752008-11-14T09:54:00.000-08:002008-11-14T09:54:00.000-08:009:25 AMKwaleFrom your Mountainview California hide...9:25 AM<BR/>Kwale<BR/>From your Mountainview California hide out we hear you voted for McCain and Palin ofcourse your hate for Raila translating his relationship with Obama can be seen on this blogs from the beginning..but guess what it will not work..<BR/><BR/>Get it straight.. Raila did not order the police to shoot and kill innocent kenyans ... your Kibaki did and the buck starts and stops with Kibaki..<BR/><BR/>his name is number one on the Waki list... that is why he Kibaki is fighting for a home grwon solution on waki's report and has convinced the warlords like Uhuru to sing the same tune...<BR/>guess what they are wasting their time... Hague has already been decided... frog marched they will and justice will be served on any kenyans from both parties who had a hand in the killings of any kenya before, during and after the 27th December 2007 elections.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-85074721461012726212008-11-14T09:44:00.000-08:002008-11-14T09:44:00.000-08:00samyou touch on a number of issues both in the pos...sam<BR/><BR/>you touch on a number of issues both in the post and your numerous comments above<BR/><BR/>lets start in general with the general consensus in kenya (wananchi side) by remembering the words of wisdom offered in the serenity prayer<BR/><BR/>"God grant me the serenity<BR/>to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference."<BR/><BR/>Kenyans over the years have consistently demonstrated sometimes with great pain that we have courage to institute and face change and have also shown resilience to endure the circumstances when change is not possible. Right now kenyans are saying that yes we have courage to tackle impunity and as per Waki either do it in house within a certain period or if shoddy or time barred then escalate the issue. Please note Waki did not go to the Hague but first gave an option for the homegrown solution, but also an alternative by presenting to the next step up the hierarchy i.e AU which as you recall was the appointing authority for Annan. It just so happens that AU do not yet have a body that matches the ICC. Therefore racist jab is in bad taste, out of place and totally uncalled for and is shameful coming from you.<BR/><BR/>Regarding sovereignty - there is idealism and then there is pragmatism, whereas they do not always necessarily have to operate in mutual exclusion there are many times one will thrive in the absence of or by considerably diminishing the other. in many cases Sam, sovereignty must be upheld when there are existing working home grown solutions whether in raw or polished form or if by so doing it fosters national pride, encourages economic growth or harmony etc. it however cannot be an excuse for gross mismanagement and inefficiency. <BR/><BR/>pragmatism is therefore when leadership recognizes that although atrractive, a homegrown solution will be arrived at far a much greater expense (time, funds, resources etc) than is viable to outsource and also that the end result of the home grown solution will neither add value to the outcome or otherwise profit the country. idealism in such an instance only serves to satiate the ego. Along this line of reasoning you could draw absurd parallels such as refusing to board or use an airplane or motor vehicle or otherwise embrace progressive technologies until or unless they are direct products from our native villages i.e Sam where do you draw the line on homegrown solution/sovereignity vs pragmatism? there are many instances when we need to seek alternatives and fresh ideas, just as there are also times when its foolish to re-invent a wheel. <BR/><BR/>lastly Sam, lets break down the home grown solution and look at the cast. in its implementation we have the leadership being offered by the one and only Amos Wako in his capacity as our AG who to date is yet to score any meaningful success in any high profile case involving the executive as pointed out above by others. then we have Justice Gicheru himself a part of the problem, then the RAW wrestling team comprising the PNU tag team of 4 on one hand and the ODM team of 4 on the other both very interesting in that the Justice Minister and internal security ministers are represented in this group and also the most vocal anit-Waki RV rep is also in this team, all of whom also have their eye on presidency in 4 years or less time. what an excellent opportunity to permanently bury your aspiring opponents. And of course the "hands tied" two principals who are staring around with jaws dropped to the floor stuck between a hard place and a rock. Then we have the investigation and detective work to be carried out by police force (oh yeah they too stand accused of atrocities as well). Somewhere in there Sam or somehow you are able to see leadership to take unbiased control of these proceedings to give it a homegrown solution and come up with credible process. I think the only logical conslusion to such a process Sam would be that it would be so muddled up that like Kriegler before it would be impossible for any solution other than forgive and forget and move on. so you are subconsciously or deliberately trying very hard to shepherd all thought process into this corner.<BR/><BR/>I would tell you, Sam, nice try, but its time for you to get real.UrXlnchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17975473173690337119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-62977107744649826482008-11-14T09:31:00.000-08:002008-11-14T09:31:00.000-08:009:10 AMSam Kenya is a failed state.. why pretended...9:10 AM<BR/>Sam <BR/><BR/>Kenya is a failed state.. why pretended?? the coalition is not working... IDP's still displaced..<BR/>MP's with fat cheques... corruption worse than Anglo leasing still happening...<BR/>kenyans dying of hunger.. crime at the higest... police have become criminals.. the lame duck in statehouse...<BR/><BR/>kenya is a failed state right after 27th December 2007 failed election..<BR/>sweeping facts under the carpet will not help the failed state of kenya Okello..<BR/><BR/>it starts with Hague...they who made kenya a failed state must pay...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-12373602797350762932008-11-14T09:25:00.001-08:002008-11-14T09:25:00.001-08:00Sam, the reason why International Criminal Courts ...Sam, the reason why International Criminal Courts exists is because there are some countries like Kenya that lack a tradition of rule of law, suffer from corruption or that have entrenched systems of patronage, or where the judiciary is weak or members of the security forces/politicians are protected by special jurisdictions or immunities. <BR/>There will be no need to go to HAGUE should Kenya comply with whatever days they were given to set-up a local tribunal. Also there will be no need to go to HAGUE if justice can be followed to the books in Kenya.<BR/>The only reason people are suggesting Hague is because they cannot trust Kenya Justice systems<BR/><BR/>And in our fake patriotisms ati Sovereignty (sick!), do you know even before Hague was established there was what they called Nuremberg Trials where all Nazi collaborators stood trial for war crimes committed during Second World War?- countries like Russia, Finland, France, Italy and many other countries surrendered their citizens to the tribunal. Are these countries not sovereign states?<BR/><BR/>Sam, you see, you only see crimes committed by a "killer" president but none by your beloved ODMdreamers, you are so blind in your idol worship you cannot see the notorious killers like Ntimama or Ruto.<BR/><BR/>Btw, who told you Hague is for failed states? It's only Israel, China and US that has resisted joining the International criminal court for obvious reasons– but they still support the tribunal!<BR/><BR/>Sam Okello you are a disgrace to Kenyans in Diaspora, not everyone think like you!Kwalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16243385762623172961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-151789153639411532008-11-14T09:25:00.000-08:002008-11-14T09:25:00.000-08:008:59 AMPNU bla bla bla.... Kibaki is heading to HA...8:59 AM<BR/>PNU bla bla bla.... Kibaki is heading to HAGUE even as we see him trying to boot lick Obama:):)<BR/><BR/>the old senile goon has it coming for him... ask Kagame of Rwanda... sources say his personal assistant has confessed on how Kagame and group planned and executed and shot down the plane that killed the leaders of Burundi and Rwanda... Kagame will be heading to Hague tooo mark my words<BR/>Kibaki, Kagame and Museveni all this leaders will face Hague sooner than later..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-58946523374659856642008-11-14T09:20:00.000-08:002008-11-14T09:20:00.000-08:00What sovereignty are we all talking about? I thoug...What sovereignty are we all talking about? I thought the PEOPLE of Kenya are the sovereign???! (and not necessarily the territory!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12839785.post-11114569209526265782008-11-14T09:18:00.000-08:002008-11-14T09:18:00.000-08:008:56 AMOkelloyou say kenya is doing fine?? after t...8:56 AM<BR/>Okello<BR/><BR/>you say kenya is doing fine?? after the slaughter of more than 3000 kenyans?? from Nairobi, Nakuru, Naivasha, western, coast, Mt. Elgon??<BR/><BR/>tell me or show me any slaughters carried out in Central province?? execpt for the mungiki's kibaki ordered to be executed??<BR/><BR/>Kibaki & Uhuru and Michuki and Karume= HAGUE<BR/><BR/>POLE SANAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com