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Monday, June 02, 2008

The Final Word On Amnesty

Yesterday I watched with amazement as President Mwai Kibaki stood before Kenyans and announced with a straight face that the perpetrators of post-election violence be prosecuted. His chutzpah and continued impunity speaks for the contempt he has for Kenyans. But because of the venue and the importance of the day he chose to spit in our faces, I have to loudly wonder about who makes the list of his perpetrators. About two weeks ago I gave my list. Here it is:

1. Mwai Kibaki
The leading culprit in the election drama is President Kibaki himself. If you wonder what crimes he committed, I'm glad to list them .

a. Mwai Kibaki plotted at the State house and at other venues across kenya to systematically manufacture votes on the 27th of December 2007. That act of vote manufacturing is criminal and should be punished under the statues that govern elections in Kenya.

b. Mwai Kibaki, together with associates, ordered the Kenya Police and other forces under his command to quell post-election fracas by using illegitimate force, resulting in the death of innocent Kenyans. Again, that act of such abuse of authority is punishable under the statues that govern the powers vested on the executive branch of the government of Kenya.

c. Mwai Kibaki, the man Kenyans elected in 2002 to protect them, watched with contempt as Kenya burned. At the very least he abdicated the duty Kenyans gave him to ensure the nation was secure within and without its borders. A competent court of law should try and ascertain whether this man had lost the capacity to govern the nation, leading to the death of thousands of Kenyans or get to the bottom of the decision-making that led to the criminally slow response of the government as the nation went up in smoke.

d. Finally, we all watched the hurried and haphazard manner the swearing-in ceremony was conducted. No national anthem. No ambassadors and representatives from Kenya's friends. If you ask me, these are the actions of a man who has defrauded a nation. That is a crime, last time I checked.

2. John Michuki
This man was the Internal Security minister. We now have indication that he used his powers in a manner that led to the death of many Kenyans. For there to be any semblance of fairness in the way justice is administered, this man should be tried so that the legality of his actions can be put under scrutiny. Moreover, it should be established if the shoot-to-kill order that led to the massacre of Kenyans in Kisumu and Naivasha came from this man. If it did, he has a case to answer.

3. Uhuru Kenyatta
Like I said two weeks ago, there were allegations that this son of the nation's founding father was given the task to fund-raise for the Mungiki. To the extent that such allegations are out there, it is important for those who have evidence against the man to come forward and be given a chance to testify against him. If he is innocent, he should be cleared of these allegations. If he is guilty, the nation has an obligation to its citizen to prove that justice is blind.

4. General M. H. Ali
The cops killed. He was their leader. It's as simple as that.
Again, Fellow Kenyans, that's my list. But to hear Kibaki's utterances yesterday, you'd think some boys from Western Province and the Rift Valley plotted to bring down his government. Has it ever occurred to him that he was the one who plotted to bring down the government these youths voted for? He may have the power to prosecute these youths now, but is that the best way to make us forget about his own crimes? Just like he insists on prosecution for our brothers and sisters across Western Kenya and the Rift Valley, should we insist that one day when he leaves power he must also face the law at the Hague for crimes against humanity?

We all need to come to an agreement that reconciliation is important for the nation. That all are created equal. That we are all in this together. If we can agree on such basic premises, then we can agree as a nation to forgive Kibaki and his murderous gang, just like he must lead the nation in forgiving and cleansing our sons and daughters of their sins. It's as simple as that.
If that can't be achieved, take the bullshit about reconciliation to the dogs.

Guest post by Sam O. Okello

Check out Kasarani.com, a new way to meet and keep in touch with Kenyans worldwide. You can even start your own blog on Kasarani! Click here to go to Kasarani.com now

40 comments:

  1. Chris and Okello,

    I have followed you last post and this one and there is something i dont seem to understand from you Chris -

    Are you advocating for the release of those who killed others in cold blood for exercising their democratic right? or those who burnt other peoples houses? or those who raped were mothers and sister? Is yours a blanket amnesty?

    Advise!

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  2. Two wrongs do not make a right. Kibz, michuki etc should be taken to court. But equally those who killed and raped should never be forgiven. Ruto nor Raila did not take the matchete and hack people to death. Individual responsibility takes precendence. Chris - am not sure why this issue as unpopular as it is you are engaging on it whole week. This thing is tricky for Rao and even nmore trickier for kibz. But on Amnesty, i think Kibaki, professor kimya are right. Unfortunately Rao is wrong footed on this one. He is wrong.

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  3. I understand I have been stricken off the list of contributors in this blog. I know the reason; because I do not suck up to the laughable dishonesty and sycophancy that goes with being a Raila goon. I will not be one, at least not in this century.

    I am a Kamba, a cousin to that TRIBE that so badly lacks comprehensive skills, wait a minute, no, that which can't read! My lack of reading skills has led me to believe that Hon Kibaki, Hon Uhuru, Michuki and Gen Ali are responsible for the deaths that faced the nation.Warlords, sorry change agents, like William Ruto, Raila Odinga, Fred Gumo and Fred Kapondi are blameless, as expected. They are the custodians of democracy in Kenya and were therefore doing nothing but enhancing democracy by hiring hooligans to go on looting and murdering sprees. These gallants of democracy (yes, and that includes Ruto)are so gracious in defeat, sorry in victory, that they agreed to not only "SHARE" power with the thief (Pooh), but also recognize his auhority.

    Sam Okello,my amazingly intellectual friend, you talked about people being tried. At what stage, by the way, is the suit that Anyang Nyong'o and his friends filed with the impartial International Criminal Court?Where do you intend to try these "perpetrators of violence" and 'election thieves'? I hope it wont be the Kenyan judiciary that is, in the words of your gang leader, Raila Odinga, packed with Kibaki friendly judges, or the ICC which is frankly incompetent, if the time it has taken them to summon Kibaki, Kivuitu and Ali is anything to go by.

    As usual, I, Victor, will call for a little bit bit of honesty, a vacation from this astonishng delusion that some of us reside in. These Balalaish and Nyong'oish imaginations that anyone needs "reconciliation" more than you are quite frankly misguided. People have continuosly and conveniently entertained the notion that Mwai Kibaki and those in his political corner need the other side more that it needs them. well, the good news is that no one including dear friends like Sam genuinely believes it. If they did,.....

    I strongly believe that, all those who raped women, scorched houses, slaughtered innocent kenyans(whether in Eldoret, Naivasha,Kibera or wherever else) deserve a hearing in court and upon conviction, a place in jail where they can live in eternal misery. I agree with the president that anyone who believes otherwise is not normal. Unfortunately and luckily for them I am neither the CJ, the AG nor the DPP. The story would be different!

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  4. Did any of those people you have named tell people to go and kill?

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  5. Moi rigged the elections a millions times and so are many other countries around the world. During Moi era, many people were tortured by security men, other were kidnapped and never seen again, Before and after the 1997 elections, strongholds of the opposition plunged into ethnic fighting, leaving hundreds of thousands of opposition supporters displaced by KANU supporters but this never made headline news anywhere.
    The unsolved murder of his former foreign minister, Dr Robert Ouko, in 1990, has still not been resolved and many more other mysteries surrounding his presidency and many corruption cases including the notorious Goldenberg Scandal. Why is Kibaki and why now? It’s seems you Odmers have an issue with President Kibaki and his Kikuyu tribe.
    As for the police order shoot to kill, they have the right to protect the public and the country from descending into anarchy and lawlessness. You remember even where you are in USA, the police were given order to shoot and kill during Katrina disaster in Louisiana.

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  6. We Kenyans are a sad lot. You can almost be sure what one subscribes to just by knowing his or her real name or tribe regardless of their academic background. That's the "African Curse" if you may. We ought to hang our heads down in shame over that. All these madness when the rest of the world is moving on in digital age, we in Africa are still behaving like in medieval times. We owe the future generation a heartfelt apology. Five years from now and we shall still be stuck in first gear, politicking till cows come home even in simplest of issues. We must listen to the victims and if they want JUSTICE, THEN JUSTICE THEY MUST GET.

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  7. Have you guys noticed that Ruto and others have suddenly stopped singing the 'amnesty song' and now left Raila to sing almost alone to the govt's deaf ears?

    The PM now looks weaker and more isolated battling with ruffnecks like Karua. The international community does not support this amnesty debate at all, so no surprises if it doesn't go anywhere.

    Suddenly it's dawning on many who doubted that the PM has got no real powers. And don't think he can even manage to 'supervise and cordinate' giants like Kimunya, Saitoti and Uhuru.

    Imagine bad boy Wetangula being summoned to PM's office to explain why some Kenyans are being stranded in South Africa? Or hardliner John Michuki being forced to explain why Nairobi River is so filthy? It can only happen in your dreams. Raila is better off saving the Mau forest.

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  8. I have always said, if you have any evidence that Kibaki stole the election, kindly present it to the court and let the court deal with it. By your continuous protest in your hideout in USA, it will never make any difference. (get real!) You either accept Kibaki as the president or gather enough evidence and take him to court. If not just shut up!

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  9. Sam,
    You are right again, lets start with the thief who stole the elections because had he not done so no kenyan life would have been lost.

    My advice to any IDPs(immigrants - thats how they call them in china) going back to their land is that as soon as they get back they should sell that land and move out coz the government doesn't care about their plight.

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  10. What happened on that fateful day of Dec 27 was divinely orchestrated by God, stolen election or not. How can one say, he want to lead the country but he is not willing to love one group of people?
    He even went further by suggesting majimbism which was aimed at isolating one particular group of people.
    All this show Raila Odinga is politically not adept enough to lead this nation.

    If you want to be a president of any country, you must be able to love ALL people, even in US politics; all presidential candidates are always appealing to ALL groups of people, the Hispanics, Women, White Middle class, Blacks, Gays, Asians, Religious groups and everyone else.

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  11. We voted the president we wanted and he is already in statehouse. Can people let him lead us in peace.

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  12. Peace with Justice!

    To those whose votes were stolen (ODM na PNU leaders and supporters), and the victims of the aftermath-the dead and the displaced. The whole nine yards. Actually, the whole 582,650 sq km. Wearing blinders on this one can't do, won't do.

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  13. Mr Sam Okello, what a waste of bad breath.
    I could not add more to what Vikii and M-Pesa have said. True vision and wisdom. These are the type of Kenyans who make me proud.
    Vikii, mwana o, Kalonzo is next up in State house, with GEMA fully behind him. Karume and other washed up wazees may not like it but the decision is made.
    Do you know something? Kibaki may not be planning to finish five years in State house. The next election could be in 2010, in two years time. Time enough for the Kalonzo/Uhuru juggernaut to be revved up and start rolling.

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  14. Sam Okello,

    I will get back to you. Something is wrong my buddy.

    Can you tell me how Kibaki STOLE election???

    Can you table any proof or documents to suggest so???

    Martha karua has always asked. Can you table the documents!

    As for an earlier post, by A i meant AKAMBA not association.

    -Derek-

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  15. Kimi, Kalonzo and Uhuru have done nothing to give them credentials to lead this country, but because they are from gema, that is enough for simple minds like yours. You would love to have cowards who have bootlicked Moi and Kibaki for years rather than real leaders. Ignorance is truly bliss in your neck of the woods huh?

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  16. It is very sad that Kenyans still thinks and behave like they did 300 years ago. This issue of amnesty should have not been brought up in the first place. No civilized society would allow this to happen. I can tell you now the Western govt breathed a mighty sigh of relief when president Kibaki said yesterday there will be no amnesty.

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  17. Anon 4:35 AM, Kibaki STOLE the elections. We saw him brazenly and shamelessly doing it in broad daylight.

    As for Kibaki ruling in peace, forget it! He is handling stolen goods (the Presidency). The Presidency is not rightfully his - He STOLE it. It will continue haunting him; he will not have it easy and HE WILL NOT HAVE ANY PEACE. In fact this FRAUDULENT 2nd term of his will give him more STRESS than his legitimate 1st term.

    There are no two ways about it. You can not STEAL and get away with it.

    The chickens will continue to keep on coming "home" to roost (to give Kibaki STRESS OF MONUMENTAL PROPORTIONS)

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  18. Derek,

    if you dont know how the election was stolen and rigged, nobody can help you see it or undersstand it.

    We are not here to babysit ethnic partisans whose myopic tribal hatred is spewed all over here.

    Go tell your trash to Gema birds.

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  19. The problem with reasoning with people who have different values is that you end up talking at each other instead of to each other......Blanket amnesty is just that amnesty it is first an admission that wrong was done and that trying to get to ne nitty gritty of who wronged who when and how may not be productive in the current environment...like I have said before the law is but a blunt instrument used to help us but its not the ultimate solution because for one it can change....we must keep the overal objective in mind and the current political situation in the country...its very easy to win the battle and loose the war at a great cost .....if punishment was a deterent in this situation then I would advocte for it but in my oppinion it wil only aggravate an already bad situation....more people will die and none of us will be any better of.

    I think PUNua should stop misdirecting their anger for being found stealing at protesters u should be focusing your enegy on winning the hearts of the people........you screwed up once but your arrogance cannot allow you to see it......the police who arrested this people are their tribesmen do you think you can keep this up..?

    Sir Alex

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  20. Anon 6.34… You said, “Kibaki STOLE the elections. We saw him brazenly and shamelessly doing it in broad daylight”….

    And that’s why we challenge you to table down the evidence of his stealing and present it before the nation and the whole of international community. I urge you to do it now!
    As for “It will continue haunting him; he will not have it easy and HE WILL NOT HAVE ANY PEACE”. It’s only you who will be haunted by what could have being. In fact you will never have peace until you present the evidence that he stole the election.

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  21. Amazing

    It is now June 2008, approx 6 months past the flawed elections, 4 months past the violence adn about 3 or so months into the grand coalition.

    So far everything has gone according to the PNU script, including the grand coalition even though it is said that it is at the behest of mediators,

    http://www.kenya-advisor.com/conflict-in-kenya.html

    when all is said and done and knowing that written history glosses over details and only milestones are given any prominence, unless we make effort to move forward, many generations and opportunities will be lost as we continue to flog a dead horse.

    here we are still with the same political/ethnic hardliner attitudes, marching towards economic slump or uncertainty of great magnitude with possibly large scale hunger/food shortage/ famine on top of high inflation etc as the global economy/recession ripples through the world.

    if we trully cannot find common political ground or vision, that is a perfectly acceptable feature in true democracy, and we need to pursue ways to co-exist and not explore sadistic methods to punish dissent, which is barbaric. If however its not possible to co-exist with dissenting opinion resulting in (sometimes violent) verbal and physical confrontation then may be its best to go our seperate ways. we do need to move on folks.

    issues like kibaki undermining orengo are what we should be looking at right now, and the different contradictory scripts each of the PNU/ODM sides of cabinet are reading from. at this rate, since there is no clear conflict resolution mechanism in place, we are going to rely on roadside decrees and counter decrees as each cabinet member wields their clout in home villages. in short we are back to a full blown moi era where even a junior civil servant could cause the political downfall of cabinet minister if s/he knew which strings to pull.

    UrXlnc

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  22. Kuja pole pole Vikii, hiyo speedy umetoka nayo jela usituletee hapa aiisee! Mos mos jo.

    Apparently, after serving his six months jail term for illegal assembly, Vikii (of all jailbirds) has the guts to come and lecture well informed Kumekuchans about who is guilty or innocent of election malpractices and crimes against humanity.

    Vikii, you cannot deny this. As a disciple of Judas Kalonzo, you were lucky to get presidential clemency during the madaraka day celebrations and kwa sababu Kumekucha ni baba na mama, you just had to make a comment on your first full day of freeedom.

    AU SIO?

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  23. Sam Okello:

    1. Why did you lift our spirits by lying that Kibaki's gov will not last a week? Look, he is still there and you are enjoying your Big Mac there in the US.

    2. Why did you lie to us that Raila cries throughout the night so that we can sleep in peace? Yes, he used to cry but it was because he lost the presidential vote. Now he does not cry anymore because he got a PM limousine and he can fly police and airforce helicopters and feels he is a big man. While we sleep with nightmares he sleeps with Ida.

    3. And now why do you lie that Kibaki, Ali, Michuki, etc., are guilty? Guilty of what? Do you have any evidence or you are just having fun with our intelligence? If you love Kenya as you say you do, why don't you take whatever you call evidence to the International Criminal Court in Hague?

    4. Okello, why do you regularly sneak on us here at Kumekucha, steal our hope and then machine-gun it for fun? Go away Okello, you are a bad dream. And may the rain come down and wash away your footprints away. It would have been better if you were not born!!

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  24. GEMA Bird or not, Mwai Kibaki won the elections. He won a close election, was sworn is as per the wordings of the supreme document that wheels the sovereign country called Kenya.

    Whether it was clean or flawed, the opposition could not have accepted any result. Never, and that was their reason to uproot the railway, burn women and children in a church, dig-up roads and even make ‘silly’ proposals like sabotaging Kikuyu (read PNU businesses)

    It has been a swan-song since Election Day that Mwai Kibaki stole the elections. How? It is said that he won in two provinces out of eight. That is hogwash. Kibaki had a provincial backing that gave him more than Raila Odinga got from his bedrock Nyanza province support.

    For six months, people like Sam Okello have been telling us that Kibaki won the elections, and they forget the equally orchestrated rigging that was in the parts of Nyanza where ODM recorded more than 100% turnout (not with the conditions that bedeck the region). Sam, it is a high time you learned to live with Kibaki as the President, Raila as PM and Kalonzo Musyoka as VP.

    Kibaki swept the board in Eastern Province, continued with a great run in Nairobi, won traditional seats in Rift Valley, acquiring the mandatory 25% per province to romp home in style.

    ODM, (now Nyanza Democratic Monopoly) first said they will not accept the results even after their own Musalia Mudavadi had usurped the powers of Samuel Kivuitu to name Raila as the winner. That one only should have landed him in the gallows of Kamiti. Remember Nigerian Moshood Abiola doing the same to Sani Abacha?

    ODM had all the powers to go to court and challenge the electuion of Kibaki (that is if they had evidence). They were invited for a recount, which they declined, said they will never meet Kibaki, they did that, said they will never go to state House, they were all sworn-in in a grandeur setting witnessed by millions from across the world. There and then, this call about stealing the elections should have ended and Sam Okello and ilk should give us a break and join the development minded Kenyans in making it a better place to live in.

    By accepting to serve in a junior role under Mwai Kibaki, raila Odinga not only conceded that Kibaki was the president, but that he had won the elections. That is why Kibaki sits alone as the head of the cabinet, with Raila joining in the ranks of ministers.

    Accept one thing that Kibaki won the elections and live with it. For five years, you will continue naming suspect here and nothing will happen. You will shout the loudest but nothing will change. Kazi inaendelea…and if you think it is a joke, James Orengo has just been told that a ministerial post is not party activism.

    -Derek-

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  25. Phil,

    It is not funny to assassinate the character of another man like that. Tafadhari, hata wewe kuja pole pole. Kumekucha si Orange House kule muna-rumourmonger 24/7.

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  26. Vikii– those claiming that Akambas are cousins to Kikuyus are suffering from inferiority complex. I am a Kikuyu and cannot understand why some tribes are always trying to identify or associate with our great tribe. Vikii, why do you so much want to be a Kikuyu?

    Vikii. You need to be proud of yourself. Stop leaning to my tribe.

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  27. Vikii– those claiming that Akambas are cousins to Kikuyus are suffering from inferiority complex. I am a Kikuyu and cannot understand why some tribes are always trying to identify or associate with our great tribe. Vikii, why do you so much want to be a Kikuyu?

    Vikii. You need to be proud of yourself. Stop leaning to my tribe.

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  28. yes GEMA birds. go tell that nonsense to your mungiki snotting and squatter thumping thai thai thayu gema birds. kwani mta do nini?

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  29. Deroo peleka ujinga mbali! Where did ODM record more than 100% voter turnouts in Nyanza? Can you name those constituencies? I remember distinctly Martha Karua Wamugunda telling us the voter turnouts in ODM Nyanza were very high, infact the point of contention was the 98% turnout which was the most they mentioned. Where did you get 100%?Rumour monger wewe! Leta records hapa! Maragwa I can tell you had 115% hata Kivuitu alisema before a-change on live tv na biro yake!

    Are we children? That you can come here and defend that thief Kibaki here? Ati he didnt steal! Tell it to the Gema birds as you have been told, si sisi!

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  30. Phil and your fellow "informed kumekuchans", I respect and will indeed defend your right to be a mad man. It is exactly these kind of appalling outbursts that will keep you glued where you have been for years.

    Anon 9.38, I play in a larger arena than the one you are used to. Pole.

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  31. ONLY A FOOL WOULD NOT BELIEVE THIS

    Doubts expressed

    EU observers said the country's election was flawed.

    "They were marred by a lack of transparency in the processing and tallying of presidential results, which raises concerns about the accuracy of the final results," the EU team said in a statement.


    An Odinga supporter sent the BBC a ballot paper that allegedly shows vote rigging


    Enlarge Image


    According to the EU, in at least two constituencies - Molo and Kieni - the results that were announced did not reflect the number of votes cast.

    EU observers say they heard the voting figures being announced in Molo itself, but when the same results were announced again in Nairobi, the number of votes for Mr Kibaki was significantly higher - by 25,000.

    Four of the 22 Kenyan election commissioners have also expressed doubts about the veracity of the figures giving President Kibaki victory by 200,000 votes.

    But Finance Minister Amos Kimunya denied his party, the ruling PNU, or the government had been involved in rigging the poll.

    He told the BBC: "I have no evidence that they were rigged. Anyone who has any information that they were rigged in one constituency or the other, or overall, let them subject it through the legal process."

    Mr Kibaki was declared the winner on Sunday after a controversial three-day counting process.

    His challenger, Mr Odinga, said he was robbed of victory by alleged fraud.

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  32. Evidence you want

    In a piece of evidence in Nakuru Town, Raila got 238 votes while Kibaki got 79 in the Constituency. However, a zero was added to Kibaki’s votes to give him 790 votes thereby adding 700 votes to Kibaki illegally. This scheme of rigging happened in 48 Constituencies.

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  33. Scenario:

    (A) Murungaru, Kiraitu, Mwiraria and others connive to steal more than 50 Billion in Anglo Leasing trial.
    KACC says those are SUSPECTS and until proven to have stolen in a court of law, they are free and innocent.


    (B) Mungiki in revenge attacks descends on Naivasha, Limuru and other environs and circumcises and hacks anything in its way that does not speak Kikuyu.
    A secret report and video obtained by BBC televised globally confirms State House organized the Mungiki reprisals and few if any have been caught


    (C) AP's and Special Police Forces, majority ethnically chosen, are sent to opposition hot beds in Kisumu, Kericho, Kakamega, Eldoret, Nairobi and Mombasa where they engage in illigetimate and wanton massacres of people (majority of them fleeing children and women)
    The Police commissioner confirms that only one police man is in court to answer charges of murdering 600 people in 6 provinces. He is deemed innocent and out on bail


    (D) Thousands of Youths are captured, most of them attending political meetings, from six provinces in Kenya and being held (against the law of 14 weeks).
    The Mt. Kenya mafia has been partisanly labelling these youths as GUILTY even before tried in a court of law. Little evidence exists for many of them



    So whats the real conclusion:

    When a Kikuyu Man steals Anglo Leasing monies; When a Kikuyu Trained Police Force is accused of wanton massacres of demonstrators; when a Kikuyu Militia Group is suspected to have committed acts against humanity; (AND OF WHICH LOTS OF EVIDENCE EXISTS TO CONFIRM THE OBVIOUS), what did the Kikuyu Mafia and its common men/women supporters do? they declared them INNOCENT until proven GUILTY.

    But when its thousands of none-kikuyu youths held on flimsy grounds such as demonstations and exercising freedom to agitate against stolen elections, what do the same Kikuyu Hypocrites do? They label them as ACCCUSED MURDERERS, RAPISTS, etc. How can 15,000 youths spread out in 6 provinces have murdered 1200 people (60% of whom died under police bullets)?

    Dr. Masinde is right when asks this improtant question: Of what gain is the Kikuyu mafia and its people going to gain from this hypocrisy? If the kikuyu mafia has evidence of criminalities, let them take people to court and follow the due process. Otherwise, this amnesty thing is going to boomerang into a new freedom swan song which once lit, will be so hard to contain as it gets a new political life which this time no Anan group will stop.


    What I find interesting is that MOI and KANU in its 25 year grip in power (apart from the 82 coup and 86 Mwakenya) never arbitralily arrested thousands of kikuyu youths for more than 45 days without taking them to court. Why? Coz MOI knew that was a recipe for a social and political armed revolution against his Govt. MOI was 100 times smarter in Leading people (not economics) than the entire Mt. Kenya Mafia and Kibaki combined. As the Kikuyu Mafia plays around with the amnesty and youths thing, they will realize too late that, its not longer amnesty but an armed struggle that they will have to deal with.

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  34. Sam Okello, are you an ODM insider?
    I'm very curious. Raila and RUTO repeated your words almost verbatim...

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  35. Oh shut the heck up, are you trying to tell us that those people who burned a church full of women and children or those we saw hacking people to death on tv should be given amnesty? As a citizen of Kenya, you are bound by the laws of the land to respect life, liberty and property. Blanket amnesty is a way of saying the 1000 people who died had worthless lives and therefore do not deserve justice. When your loved one is hacked to death in the name of political affiliation let us know if you still feel the same way. Those who looted, killed, maimed and burned property should not get any amnesty, otherwise we are announcing to the world that that is the way we cry foul which is a bunch of nonsense.

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  36. as said above, you have the evidence that Kibaki is a thief? Present it! the whole point? both sides did their rigging, so we can never know who won the 2007 general election. And ODM are not as innocent as they would like us to believe, they are as crooked as the others.

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  37. The Debate on Amnesty highlights the political hubris of Kibaki, Mt. Kenya Mafia and its PNU hawks:

    Let me put a twist in this tired partisan “No Amnesty of All Kinds” argument. Lets go back about 50 years ago. During the peasant militia revolution christened the MAUMAU, 150,000 African natives lost their lives alongside 30 British Caucasian Citizens. In the ensuing episodes, what took place is as follows:

    1. The British Colonial Government CORRECTLY adjudicated the uprising as related to LAND (Resource) but fuelled by the emerging global political climate of anti-imperialism.
    2. The peasant militia MAUMAU was equipped with hundreds of PANGAS, SLAHSERS, WOODEN GUNS, GUNPOWDER, JEMBES, FORKS and STICKS.
    3. Hundreds of youths and MAUMAU adherents and its leaders were captured and imprisoned indefinitely amongst them Colonel CHINA and KIMATHI who were ceremoniously hanged.
    4. Very few, if any, of the captured MAUMAU thousands of youths did any jail time as within a short time, majority were let go under UK Program of Civilian Reintegration. The political deal on independence freed the remaining ones.

    Similar practices, processes and programs have taken place in other parts of the world:

    1. South Africa, with end of Apartheid, where a Truth Justice and Reconciliation Commission presided over the matters over a 3-5 year period.
    2. Ex-failed states in West Africa like Sierra Leone, Togo and Liberia where rampant wars brought about bloodshed
    3. Mutual civilian prisoner exchanges between Israel and Palestine (and other Arab Neighbors) that exists to this day

    Finally, in almost all places there has been a tradition of the agents of the catalytic effects to own up, seek forgiveness and atone for their negative-leadership legacy:

    1. In South Africa, the architects of the apartheid system stood down from office and publicly atoned for their former sins
    2. In East Africa, during the MAUMAU period, the British Colonial forces atoned for their uprisings mistakes and publicly apologized and kept inventory of some form of reparation in the form of skills, land, etc
    3. In India, the departing Colonial forces did the similar land transfer, skills transfers and promised technical cooperation.

    The principle of these are usually the same: Sustaining peaceful initiatives after a spontaneous or planned civilian conflict using reconciliation and civic-awareness and counseling sessions are more important than seeking empty hollowed and kangaroo type justice programs. This does not mean abhorring or abetting crimes committed like murder or property destruction as those found directly guilty will have to do time. .

    Those caught with evidence of any criminalities should be prosecuted and tried in court and if found guilty, jailed. In doing so, utmost care must be taken to prevent trumped charges, improper persecution and faulty investigations by a police force that was a perpetrator of the same violence itself. What is even strange from the political grandstanding is that the National Accord and Political Deal on Feb-28 provided for an independent, quick and proper mechanism to try any suspect arrested. This mechanism recognized the police as part of the accused given that more than 50% of the 1200 deaths were from police gun shots in the back especially on women and children.

    Those, where evidence exists and a case can be put for excessive criminalities, have to follow the due process and if convicted, the perpetrators need to serve their time. So the question is: If these could happen elsewhere, why is Kenya an exception? And why do we see the misleaders on both sides of the Kenyan chaos, totally oblivious to their roles. Holding people indefinately so as to prove a political partisan point is adding more fire to the silent conflict in Kenya.

    Let those in power not be as myopic and hollow as their voices seem to have become. Especially when the justice they seem to seek is partisan, retributive and selective. It surprises me that they have arrested thousands of youths from the ex-opposition zones and barely hundreds, if any, from the pro-government-parties bastions. Even more abominable is that hundreds of culpable police officers (who engaged in wanton ethnic killings) and catalyst ECK officials are walking scot-free. What fair, impartial and sustainable justice are these PNU hawks talking about?

    Do they realize power and the current power alignment do not last forever? Ask the KIAMBU mafia of the 1960’s who at the apex of their power dome rode rough shod on other communities while egged on with clueless Mt. Kenya electorates. When the change happened in 1978, it took 25 years to convince the others to forget.

    My prediction is that history is about to repeat itself. Those in power today will be in opposition tomorrow and will rue all their actions and verbose. Just ask the ex-KANU people today and you will learn of self-regrets and hubris.

    I end with a phrase: One mans freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist. There was a time Kenyatta, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela and others were branded terrorists. With foresight, their respective colonial powers changed in time and engaged in some honest political transfer of powers or power sharing that eventually averted major loss of bloodshed.

    Kaka Mwambao


    I came across this post in KUMEKUCHA which somehow shares my position

    Scenario:

    (A) Murungaru, Kiraitu, Mwiraria and others connive to steal more than 50 Billion in Anglo Leasing trial.
    KACC says those are SUSPECTS and until proven to have stolen in a court of law, they are free and innocent.


    (B) Mungiki in revenge attacks descends on Naivasha, Limuru and other environs and circumcises and hacks anything in its way that does not speak Kikuyu.
    A secret report and video obtained by BBC televised globally confirms State House organized the Mungiki reprisals and few if any have been caught


    (C) AP's and Special Police Forces, majority ethnically chosen, are sent to opposition hot beds in Kisumu, Kericho, Kakamega, Eldoret, Nairobi and Mombasa where they engage in illigetimate and wanton massacres of people (majority of them fleeing children and women)
    The Police commissioner confirms that only one police man is in court to answer charges of murdering 600 people in 6 provinces. He is deemed innocent and out on bail


    (D) Thousands of Youths are captured, most of them attending political meetings, from six provinces in Kenya and being held (against the law of 14 days).
    The Mt. Kenya mafia has been partisanly labelling these youths as GUILTY even before tried in a court of law. Little evidence exists for many of them



    So whats the real conclusion:

    When a Kikuyu Man steals Anglo Leasing monies; When a Kikuyu Trained Police Force is accused of wanton massacres of demonstrators; when a Kikuyu Militia Group is suspected to have committed acts against humanity; (AND OF WHICH LOTS OF EVIDENCE EXISTS TO CONFIRM THE OBVIOUS), what did the Kikuyu Mafia and its common men/women supporters do? they declared them INNOCENT until proven GUILTY.

    But when its thousands of none-kikuyu youths held on flimsy grounds such as demonstations and exercising freedom to agitate against stolen elections, what do the same Kikuyu Hypocrites do? They label them as ACCCUSED MURDERERS, RAPISTS, etc. How can 15,000 youths spread out in 6 provinces have murdered 1200 people (60% of whom died under police bullets)?

    Dr. Masinde is right when asks this improtant question: Of what gain is the Kikuyu mafia and its people going to gain from this hypocrisy? If the kikuyu mafia has evidence of criminalities, let them take people to court and follow the due process. Otherwise, this amnesty thing is going to boomerang into a new freedom swan song which once lit, will be so hard to contain as it gets a new political life which this time no Anan group will stop.


    What I find interesting is that MOI and KANU in its 25 year grip in power (apart from the 82 coup and 86 Mwakenya) never arbitralily arrested thousands of kikuyu youths for more than 6 months without taking them to court. Why? Coz MOI knew that was a recipe for a social and political armed revolution against his Govt. MOI was 100 times smarter in Leading people (not economics) than the entire Mt. Kenya Mafia and Kibaki combined.

    As the Kikuyu Mafia plays around with amnesty and arrested youths thing, they will realize too late, its no longer amnesty but armed struggle that they will deal with.

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  38. Martha Karua is shouting hoarse (no amnesty) I would like to request her and her ilk to tell us what they are doing about the stolen elections which they pefected for Kibaki to sworn in hiding at State House, why did they let Kivuitu to go scott free even after evidently bungling with the presidential elections (He later said he was under pressure but we are not told from which quaters!) Then we saw Mungiki armed to the teeth in Nakuru, Naivasha, and even along the road to Nakuru stopping buses and killing people who were not kikuyus, were they arrested? Why are these PNU Gangsters applying double standards? And do they expect to get away with that.
    The struggle has just started.

    Rexx

    ReplyDelete
  39. anon at 6.31, you say that kikuyu hypocrites are the one's shouting no amnesty eh? who said that the mungiki shouldnt be punished? You havea very shallow perspective on things, like all militia, those guys are obviously protected by certain prominent persons, just like the sabaot land defence force and all the other militia groups so dont start choosing culprits otherwise you are failing to look at the bigger picture. You stop being the hypocrite and tribalist and brand all kikuyu's into one box. many kikuyu's never wanted this, many kikuyu's are dirt poor and you only need to go to the streets to see that for yourself. Grow up! this is not petty tribalistic revenge, this is people who lost their lives deserving justice. No one has any right to take away someone's life, liberty or property. Anyone who does that should be punished, and that goes for our politicians too. I cannot honestly believe that after you saw women and children burnt in a church, hundreds of kenyans killed and families destroyed that you think all should be given amnesty! NO WAY! those who killed, maimed and looted must face the repurcussions, and dont you dare compare south africa to Kenya, their wounds are still very sore, and it is very obvious that SA is a ticking time bomb. Our politicians exploit our fears, and for most Kenyans is that one tribe will be so dominant that they will terrorise the others. You forget that they will sit there and enjoy in the golf clubs whilst you are defending them, they dont care! deal with it and actually for once start looking at things as a kenyan, not as a tribalist kenyan who despised all kikuyu's then pretends he or she is of integrity

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  40. anon 5:09

    if it were true both sides rigged, then by laws of justice none of them should be anywhere near leadership, and they should both be in jail and some interim process in place or rulership delegated to an impartial process as decreed. why should an incumbent take advantage of a shoddy deal for the mwananchi, just dont make sense

    ReplyDelete

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